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Masi Oka: How Heroes will try to win back the fans
Masi Oka, who plays the time-traveling hero Hiro Nakamura on NBC's Heroes, told reporters that the show has weathered its problems and will return to its roots with the upcoming volume entitled "Fugitives."
Oka spoke to journalists during a conference call yesterday. During the conversation, the actor addressed the show's problems and creator-producer Tim Kring's solutions, previewed the upcoming "Fugitives" arc and discussed the departure of writer-producers Jesse Alexander and Jeph Loeb and the return of writer-producer Bryan Fuller.
The first episode of the "Fugitives" volume, written by Kring and directed by Emmy winner Greg Yaitanes, premieres Monday at 9 p.m. ET/PT. Following are edited excerpts of the interview with Oka.
The last cycle of episodes, the "Villains" arc, got a bit of a critical beating, though most fans thought it was redeemed by the last couple of episodes. What can we expect with the new volume?
Oka: Pretty much, to be exact, we're going to go back to the fundamentals that made the show really great and what's kept it grounded, with it going back to the central characters and trying to tell smaller stories, but with big action. There's going to be more character-based [stories] as we see them finally come together towards the end to try to save themselves.
In general, do fans and critics need to be more patient with the show?
Oka: It would be great if you could. I mean, we can't ask for that, of course. The creative process is one ... that kind of builds, and Tim also has a great map to where we go, but at the same time there's a collaboration that happens that allows us to go from interesting places and allows us to discover. And we hope that the audience and the fans will go on this discovery and journey with us knowing that there will be a great payoff.
I think with all our volumes we've sometimes have slow starts, but we always pick it up at a high gear towards the end. And I think because a show like this takes such risks and makes bold choices, it takes a little bit of time for the audience and the critics to get accustomed to this kind of new kind of journey that we're starting to take. And once everyone is on board, we hit the ground running. So, you know, we do ask [for] maybe some patience from the fans and the audience. If we can ask for that, that'd be great.
Following up on that, did you personally feel the show had lost its way, or were people just being too hard on it because it came out of the box so big, so strong and so popular?
Oka: I don't know. It's so hard with the creative process, because we tell so many stories so fast, because Tim is all about getting answers quickly and satiating the audience's appetite for what happens next. You're on the edge of your seat. And season one was so perfect, ... and there's so much story that you can tell, ... it becomes difficult. To shake things up, you do need to make different choices, bold choices. So I don't think it's necessarily lost its way, it's just trying different paths, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't work. And I think when we started volume three they found a different path, and they found a way to make it work.
Volume four, "Fugitives," is another completely [new arc]. We're going back to the grounded characters and the central characters, [and] people trying to live their ordinary lives being hunted now. And that's a completely different story than we've been trying to tell. So it might take a while to get us accustomed to the "usual heroes," but it still has the core ensemble drama. So I'm not sure if it's lost its way, it's just always different. Some people will respond to the way the story is told in the one volume and maybe not to another.
What will Hiro be up to in this new arc?
Oka: What's interesting about Hiro is he starts off powerless. I find it actually interesting to play a powerless character, because you kind of get the joy of rediscovering that power and what it means to be a hero without powers. So having someone who had had powers and going to someone who's powerless is an interesting character mindset. You kind of fall from grace in many ways. So it's about adjusting to that, and how do you live your life knowing that once you were a hero and that you can still be a hero by helping others ... and possibly trying to get the powers back?
Can you talk a little bit about the Hiro-Ando relationship and what we have to look forward to in that regard?
Oka: In the beginning, Hiro's powerless, and Ando has a kind of supercharger power, so Hiro is trying to nudge him on. In many ways he realizes, "OK, well, now he's had his turn, so he needs to kind of step up and see what he can do." And he takes on pretty much the role of the butler. He becomes Alfred in many ways. He's trying to make a Batman out of Ando, but Ando is reluctant, and he only cares about girls right now. So Hiro is trying to make him use those powers for good, to save other people. And of course, Hiro ends up getting in trouble, and Ando ends up helping him. But then, you know, then it's about them trying to work together and find new ways to get [Hiro's] power back.
What has been the impact of Bryan Fuller's return to the show?
Oka: You know what? First of all, my heart goes out to Jesse and Jeph. They were amazing writers, and I love them. They're my friends, and they're working on their own shows already. So I'm so glad that they're doing well. I think that's always a hard loss, one you actually don't have control over. But with Bryan coming back I think it's definitely a new dynamic, and it's such a great energy that he brings to the show. He's such an accomplished show runner, with great ideas, from Wonderfalls and Pushing Daisies. And he was on the show from season one, so he knows what the process was. He knows what made it great.
Then, having stepped out of it for a season and a half, I think he had such a subjective view on how the show was, what the show became, and how it kind of, in his mind, took a different path. And having him come back, being so excited, it's like, "Oh, this is what was great. Let's go back to this." He came back the day after he found out Pushing Daisies wasn't coming back. And he was just so gung-ho about the show. He came back with all these ideas, so excited.
And I think that really invigorated everyone, because the writers, ... we're all artists, and we are insecure in some senses. So when we hear the critics, the writers do take it to their heart. So with Bryan coming in, I think it gave them an uplifting momentum and energy, and I think it's such a big morale boost to everybody. There's a great synergy in the room right now. It's just a lot of excitement for new ideas.
By mav30 at 3:00 PM ON 01/30/09
It will be interesting to see how the relationship between Hiro and Ando will continue now that their roles as hero and sidekick are reversed.
I enjoy this show and hope to see it get back on track from the long stream of tangents that led to new characters who were mildly entertaining and seemingly added as filler (the body of Jesse Murphy Peter Petrelli inhabited when his consciousness was driven out of his body at the beginning of the third season) and incredibly superfluous story lines that included time travel, viruses and genetic engineering, and the lame right off of Niki Sanders and subsequent reintroduction of Ali Larter as Tracy Strauss.
"Less is more" is an idea that needs to be reintroduced back into this show. I will keep watching this show no matter what, cringing at bad plot lines and cheering on my favorite characters. Science fiction and fantasy got a real shot in the arm with this tv series.
By Sertan at 8:14 PM ON 01/30/09
I think the problem with Heroes is that it wasted its creative ammunition in the first season.
Look at all the best shows on TV recently and how each opened up its universe and characters to its audience:
The Wire- season 1 focused on a squad of detectives wire-tapping gangsters in Baltimore to bring them down. It had a very clear theme, quality police work vs. quantifiable police work, which ran through the show's entire run. But after the first season, we saw an expansion of the geography of Baltimore and that it wasn't just about gangs in the streets- there was related trouble at the docks. Third season expanded it further to include the geographical opposite of Baltimore. Fourth season, schools. Fifth season, the media. By the end of the fifth season, we had a complete picture, a complete vision of a show. The Wire did something in its own favour however, with a lack of season cliffhangers. Each season, save the 2nd, could effectively be the last compared to most shows.
Lost - first season focussed on the survivors of the main section of Flight 815 while posing a lot of questions about the island. Second season expanded this creative stock to include the tail section survivors and the tribe of people who were living on the island before 815 got there. Third season gave us a pretty complete picture of (except for people like Richard Alpert) the Others. Fourth season added another creative layer to the show with its flash forwards. And now fifth season is firmly planting the show in the realm of scifi.
Battlestar Galactica- first season was about on the run constant survival. Second season asked, right, we've survived- where to from here? Third season gave us the Cylon perspective. Fourth season gave us answers and Earth and what all of that means.
Do you see how in all of these shows, a lot of care was taken to give information to the viewers at a controlled pace, about the mythology of the shows, the characters, how it all fits together?
The problem with Heroes is that it unloaded everything in the first season. In the first season, we had an awesome serial killer plot, we had time travel, we had deaths of major villains. For example, I believe Linderman, from a creative standpoint, died prematurely. This guy was an incredible villain- his presence meant that as soon as the heroes united, they'd find each other at odds when it came to a guy who could literally heal the world. Throw Sylar back in the mix and it would have opened up an amazing second season.
Obviously the writers strike considerably hurt this series, but I believe the first season, great as it was, hurt the future direction of the series, with its myriad plot twists and immediate answers with no build up, no tension and hence no satisfactory pay off. Rather than reallign themselves creatively (ie. withdraw, plan and proceed), we got a mish-mash of ideas for a third season.
If you're someone like J. Michael Straczynski, this is never going to be a problem. When you have an entire show mapped out, including trap door plans in the event actors leave the show or whatever, this is never going to be a problem. But few shows, including Lost and BSG, are like that. (Lost almost lost its way in the third season for a similar reason to Heroes- thank you Brian K. Vaughan.) The solution then is to simply pace yourself and let your mythology breathe. Sure, it means the audience is frustrated but at least it gives you time to plan ahead and plan towards your show's end game.
Anyway this brain dump went on for longer than I thought it would. That's my thought on Heroes. It's not impossible to save the show, but for me at least, it's going to be hard to collect the box sets when we have two ugly seasons between season 1 and a possibly-great season 4.
By AdmNaismith at 9:30 PM ON 01/30/09
Will the characters stop WHINING all the gods damned time?
Will they ever use their powers (for good or bad, I don't care)?
I got turned off because everyone was sooooo conflicted about their new found superiority.
When Syler survived Season One because Ando pulled the sword out, I gave up. Whiny and stupid is not a winning combination for a TV show.
By AdmNaismith at 9:33 PM ON 01/30/09
Will the characters stop WHINING all the gods damned time?
Will they ever use their powers (for good or bad, I don't care)?
I got turned off because everyone was sooooo conflicted about their new found superiority.
When Syler survived Season One because Ando pulled the sword out, I gave up. Whiny and stupid is not a winning combination for a TV show.
How is it that NBC can be so hot on Bryan Fuller writing for their sad little superhero show and ABC fires him for creating something else wholly original and engaging?
Somebody give him the ST franchise, already.
By AngryJonny at 11:36 PM ON 01/30/09
Ahh, just put the show out of its misery (and mine). It's so over and done with. I stuck with it and stuck with it and stuck with it, but I just can't do it anymore. I actually get a little bit of a bile taste at the very tip of my esophagus whenever I think about how floundering and directionless this disappointment of a show has become.
By Facepalm at 2:49 PM ON 01/31/09
First season was ok when the individual stories slowly connected, but now the storyline is in a dead end.
Too many people with balance breaking abilities and every two episodes a new twist why somebody is the cousin of somebody else. All stories start with somebody time traveling and some other guy painting prophecies. I am also dead tired of the world requiring constant saving. When is it ever NOT about saving the world. This storyline grows old, at least save the moon, or the sun or the concept of love, or the little brain cells remaining in most characters.
Even killing the entire cast and starting over with a different setting would be more interesting than seeing the existing storyline deteriorate any further. At least we then can remember the cast in a state we still liked a bit.
By ufoguy1 at 10:15 AM ON 02/01/09
hero's seasons 1-3 all kick a*s in my opinion and i will continue to watch the show untill it comes to and end. cant wait for season 4!
By UnRiel at 12:43 PM ON 02/02/09
Heroes deserves a chance. I see good things in having them defend themselves against a leftist government roundup. I hope the writers allow the characters to finally break out and really exercise their powers aggressively.
What we missed, only suggested, was seeing Peter and Sylar go all out against each other. Writers of comics and TV needs to face the same thing, character development does not replace the visceral action we crave.
By Dave at 9:48 AM ON 02/04/09
Redeemed by the last few episodes? You mean when they completely botched relativity? Where you can run really fast to go into the past and really, really fast to get back to the present (and presumbably on to the future). That damn near did the show in for me. I'm so sorry to see Pushing Daisies go, but it may be the best thing that ever happened to Heroes.
By luke at 9:58 PM ON 03/03/09
I love hero's . just kill Syler and that fixes the show for me.
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I love hero's . just kill Syler and that fixes the show for me....More »