I realize I'm in the vast minority on this, but I found Bale's performance in The Dark Knight to be terrible in comparison to Batman Begins. He came off as flat - and after re-watching the movie a few times I'm convinced an awesome movie could have been made with the same cast minus Batman. He was really more of a prop in TDK.

I'm in total agreement. And to further that, I found the movie as a whole vastly disappointing. It was incongruous, hard to follow, and maybe Heath Ledger's performance would have been better if there'd been more of him, but what little there was just wasn't that good.

I'll grant Bale's performance was flat, but how can you say TDK was vastly disappointing!? It's the only Batman film to come close to Frank Miller's vision.

TDK wasn't as good as Batman Begins. TDK tried to do to much in to little time. It would have been better to split it into two movies. The movie was in a rush to do everything, just as Batman was done with one crisis he had to rush to the next. That works in a comic because the text can tell you whats going on, but in TDK it seemed disjointed and didn't allow for charecter development (except for the Joker and yeah we needed more of him).

The fight scenes were abysmal as well. Heath Ledger was brilliant - brilliant - as was most the rest of the cast. However, people who rag on Katie Holmes should relax - she could have won an Oscar (or whatever award Hollywood gives out to great actors) in comparison to the girl who replaced her. Bale was flat, but that new Rachel was the single worst performance I've seen in an otherwise OK film since Terrence Howard in Iron Man. Those two should get together and make an educational film about acting - it could be shown in acting schools around the world as a tutorial on how NOT to act.

you all obviously know nothing. bale was amazing, ledger was fantastic. entire film was amazing. best superhero film out there however ill grant that bale did have a better performance in batman begins but that was because it focused more on him.

stuff frank miller's vision. we ought to be getting bob kane's vision!

Some people didnt like the dark knight, thats life, but the vast mjority loved it, as did I. I could easily follow the film, and if the joker was confusing, that was the point. Youre not suppose to really understand the mind of a madman. All the characters had the right amount of time to have a good story arc, I liked the joker in there and two-face was done just right to be an addtional tragic villian. I liked Eric Roberts and the story on the whole I enjoyed. So if you didnt like it, thats cool, youre not alone, but I loved it, along with a whole bunch of others. I like Christian Bale as Batman, I mean the voice of Batman is awful, but hey I wont let it stop me from enjoying it. The next movie it would be sooooo awsome if Micheal Keaton played the villian.

Michael Keaton playing the villain? Who would he be, The Eyebrow?

I loved The Dark Knight. And while I disagree about Bale--I thought his performance was great--I do agree about Maggie Gyllenhaal. After an hour of her onscreen, I was rooting for her to die. I just want to know how Richard Alpert got off the island and became Mayor of Gotham City.

I very much felt that "The Dark Knight" was rushed. It needed more of that Battlestar Galactica Season 1 touch -- more texture, more character moments. For example, Nolan thinks that a simple reference to two characters being in love is enough, but for drama to be moving and effective you need proper evidence and dialogue of this. If the story and script had been allowed to breathe more, it would have been even better! I'd love to see a 3 hour cut of the film!

Terrence Howard and Maggie Gyllenhall are very good actors; Gyllenhall is certainly better than Holmes. However, this just goes to my point that it was the script. I think Nolan's Batman films are pretty great, but they're very plot-driven and to the degree they have a lot to say, it's a bit unnaturally conveyed with concise statements about human nature or whatever. BSG is far more sophisticated in its exploration of humanity. I also feel they got away by not exploring what motivated the Joker; they certainly made him scarier by not exploring it, but it didn't do justice to understanding why evil happens in our world, and lots of people have taken The Joker as some justification for Bush's war on terror and the dehumanization of the Islamic world, including a mania.com review. I find that frightening. An analogy to BSG would be if we only got to see part of the miniseries or the first season to comprehend the cylons. By Season 2 of BSG, we understand the cylons much better and how complex we are. Perhaps some might feel The Joker would have been less frightening because he's be less mysterious, but human beings are terrifying even if we understand them and this should have been attempted.

Still, it was a bloody great film and it was nice to see something ambitious instead of that half-assed drivel by J.J. Abrams and his buds.

I agree with:

Bale in Begins>Bale in TDK
Begins>TDK

but I still loved TDK quite a bit. I'm in the minority that prefered Eckhart to Ledger, though.

i must be the only person who doesnt give a crap about bales voice.everywhere i go about TDK people whine about it.perosnaly i think its great someone playing batman had the brains to change his voice when in the suit.hes by far the best batman/bruce wayne.i love TDK,every bit of it and i hope they make a 3rd one.it doesnt have to be TDK,if anyone could get a good 3rd movie in a superhero series it be these guys.

Christian Bale did an excellent job as Batman. It's impossible to have picked a better actor. Some characters were designed specifically for certain actors... Wesley Snipes, Blade / Harrison Ford, Indiana Jones / James Earl Jones, Darth Vader's voice / Tobey Maguire, Spiderman. Sure you can have different actors play these parts, but they'll never be convincing enough to keep the ratings.

Michael Keaton did an excellent job as Batman, but that was a completely different version like a comic book or fairy tale version of Batman. Bale's version of Batman is a more serious more realistic type version, and Bale plays serious characters in his movies reason why he works best at it.

I agree though Batman wasn't the highlighted main attraction of Dark Knight, because Heath Ledger was. Bale was still good, but it's almost like he was a co-star because the Joker stole the show. But that's a good thing though when your co-star gets all the attention then it doesn't mean the main actor did a lousy job, but more like you had an excellent co-star making your movie better than you can.

But truth is Dark Knight was about the Joker, Batman Begins was about Batman. But if anyone ever says that Heath Ledger didn't do a very good job as the Joker then you expect way too much from a performance and should try playing a part yourself and let the world see how you do. Not saying Heath Ledger is the best actor in the world because of the joker, but am saying that him being the Joker was convincing enough to land the movie number 2 on the box office of all time. Sure high ticket prices got the movie there, but obviously people were so impressed they paid for more than 1 ticket.

The Dark Knight wasn't about Batman the man, this movie was about Batman the idea.

and in 20 years when someone surpaces the dark knight in money made people will complain about ticket prices also if the darknight satyed in theaters for as long as titanic was kept in....it would have well surpassed titanic.all that matters for me is that it kicks titanics ass in terms of awesomeness.

Ok so heres a new opinion Frank Millars Dark version of Batman sucks. I was disappointed with the TDK. I felt Health Ledgers performance was terrible he was just a looney with a gun not the Joker( ps I like Heath Ledgers other films) Mark hamil has always been a better Joker. And the fact that Batman is the man and Bruce Wayne is the disguise. Sorry its been done to death its old and perverse. It makes Batman not a hero but just another psycho. Batman(and the other heroes we read andwatch) should be just that heroes they should rise to the challenge not be our darkest nightmare. They should lead us and inspire us not drop low and be victims like the people they try to save. We need more Light not shades of grey and darkness. Bring the character back to his origional roots not Frank Millars roots. And while were at it release the 1960s Batman on DVD and stop being scared that this lighter Batman will tarnish your money making beast of today.

Sanga, why would somebody so in love with the conventional and the mundane frequent a place like this?

Sorry Sanga, but I think you missed the mark on Batman. He is not a "light" character nor does he want to be the hero. From his comic book beginnings, he has always been a dark character driven by his own psychosis. One of the reasons that charactors like the Joker and Two/Face are great villians for Batman has they (when done by good writers) get into why Bruce Wayne is the way his is and not another psycho. Batman is meant to strike fear into criminals not to give people a warm fuzzy feeling.
The batman of the 60s was a travesty to the origins that you want. The TV execs at that time were doing just what you are saying, they were scared that batman's dark nature would not be profitable so they made him campy and light.

I concur with the majority here, TDK was vastly inferior to Batman Begins and I found the entire hype surrounding the movie made it out to be something it wasn't. Ledger's performance was nothing to write home about; hell the Joker from the camp TV version was better. The story was rather flat and longwinded and the entire Harvey ending seemed extremely far fetched in his turnabout. Yes he lost his lover and half his face but then to contemplate shooting a kid; didn't work and apart from being a glaring plot device to end the film fell flat on it's ass. Lets hope Bale has a better plot/script with Terminator: Salvation.

yes batman was meant to strike fear into the hearts of villians not people. and batman the animated series was great. a little dark edgy but bruce wayne is a character and never gets lost abyss of batmans psyche. also to point out camp bat man was very succesful it lasted from 1960- 1985. Ive read siver age comics and heros are heros villians are villians theres something to be said for that. Im listening to audio book of Ifinite Crisis right now I advise every to get it its simply awesome. But listening to it and heraring how far batman has fallen to spy on the other heroes and his freinds isnt dark but just paranoid and his paranoia with good intentions causesthe deaths of millions. gotta run have fun.

It used to be that it took several years, if not decades for people to rewrite history. Now it only takes several months. Last Summer, critics as well as your average forum poster were falling all over their selves trying to find new ways to heap praise on TDK. It was the best comic book film ever made, The Joker was the blueprint for future actors on what a movie villian could be, ect ect. Now, not even a year later, when the film has become a legend and the #2 highest grossing film in the history of the medium, all the sudden it's hard to follow, Bale was flat, yada yada. I'm not saying that the film was perfect (it wasn't) and i'm by no means saying that just because it made a ton of money that it's a great film, but it saddens me that it seems that, for most geeks (and I don't use that term in the pergorative) if a film crosses over and becomes a massive hit, that means it can't...CAN'T...really be good. We like to have things to ourselves and the moment the rest of the world likes it, we start finding fault where we didn't find it before. Don't start changing the facts now because it's 'cooler' to say you, out of the millions of people to loved it, didn't like it. That's crass and shows how shallow we can be. Bale was fine, but Batman has never been the showy part, that's always been the villian. Ledger was a revalation in that film, and no amount of retcon now is gonna change that. And if you couldn't follow that film, then sorry to say,but the problem is with you, not the film. The script was tight, suspenseful and filled with iconic moments. The film was overstocked and had too much story, but in a world where we usually whine that a film has a thin plot and not much going on, i'll take TDK anyday of the week. You can retcon all you want, but i'll stay with the facts.

Well carolina_projectionist, I think part of the disconnect is that, not everyone saw it in the theaters; some of us had to wait until it was on dvd to rent it, because theater prices are a joke. So now, many months later, the movie is being exposed to a new, wider audience; and can also now be examined closer by those that may have seen it maybe once in the theater.

I am one of those that couldn't afford to see it in the theater and had to wait for it to come out on dvd, just like most of the people I know did. I don't know anyone that actually liked movie. I thought there were elements that were good; which says alot, because I hate Batman Begins. Before I watching TDK, I rewatched BB to see if my opinion of it changed and I loath it more now than ever, pure crap.
But TDK did seem better in parts - but ultimately, the vast majority of it I found dissapointing. Heath Ledger's portrayal of the Joker was one of the few things I enjoyed about it. I've never really cared for Christian Bale in general. The ending was absolutely terrible. Why implicate Batman for the murders Two Face committed, when they could have just pinned it on the Joke?? That made no sense!
And they completely squandered Two-Face. They wasted almost as badly as Sam Rami wasted Venom.

I don't think this board is representative of the overall population...most people loved TDK. I thought it had elements of brilliance - Ledger as Joker, Two Face, etc. - but there were too many stupid problems. If anyone wants to debate, here is what comes right to mind: 1) the girl who replaced Katie Holmes as Rachel was AWFUL. Maybe not an awful actress overall, but beyond awful in this role. 2) What was the deal with Scarecrow in the beginning? Such a great character/portrayal in BB, and they waste a potential follow up with that? 3) I hated the changes to the Bat suit ala making it more "Motocross" (which Nolan said himself) - only detracted slightly from movie for me, but still annoyed. 4) I thought the fight scenes in this movie were pathetic - liked how insane they were in BB where he would "swoop in" and such, just weren't filmed well for this movie. 5) Not enough Batman to be a Batman movie. Say what you want about "being about the villain - I say garbage. Batman movies are about Batman - or they should at least be in equal parts about Batman - regardless of how brilliant the supporting cast is. And I loved Bale in BB and in general like him, but I'm sorry he was flat in TDK. 6) I personally didn't care for how much of the film took place during the day. This is obviously personal preference, but really enjoyed the night time environment of BB and really feel like Batman is a night character. Way too much going on in the day during this film. I really hated the new Rachel. 8) the ending with turning Batman into the villain really didn't make sense. Instead of blaming on Batman, why not just say that Harvey Dent rescued the kid from one of the Joker's deranged henchmen? Why implicate Batman at all? Maybe he got there after the fact and was on his way out without murdering anybody...just throwing that out there. 9) I'm sorry, but that monologue at the end by Jim Gordon didn't make ANY sense. None, whatsoever.

And on another note, I really hated the new Rachel and really thought she detracted from the film. A lot. And that night vision/super vision thing at the end was a stretch - even for a Batman film. The other ones have been more or less grounded in the realm of possibility, but that was a bit too much of a stretch. Again, in my opinion.

And to the all the people talking about Frank Miller, please come off it. The guy makes ONE good film (hint: it wasn't 300 or The Spirit) and suddenly everyone is on their collective knees for the guy. Frank Miller did not invent Batman - his word and vision are not the end all/be all of good film.

Peter Dinklage as Jervis Tetch, the Mad Hatter

Have him kidnap children in Gotham and Batman's solving of this helps to restore his repuation

For the people who didnt like TDK, or the whole concept of it. Im glad you didnt, its just not as interesting to argue if everyone agreed. Truth is after TDK was released, people, the media, everybody was saying how great it was, it totally raised the expectations for those who didnt watch it yet. So im sure a lot of people were like saying it wasnt that great after hearing all the news about it. I liked it simply because unlike spiderman 3 I dont think any of it was rushed, all the characters had their arc balanced and played out and enough screen time to feel satisified. Two Face was soooo much better in this movie then batman forever. And not so campy and well yea tommy lee jones played that one like a recycled Joker. In TDK two face was about a noble guy who believed in Batman but then slowly started going down to straight up anger, decided everything is based on chance, a simple chance. Killing of the girl, well thats what happen when youre a girl in the batman world, if you dont end up the villian you end up dead or forgotten. Batman whole deal was that he is a little psycho, this is based off a graphic novel that shows him like this, Bale talked about this, Nolan talked about this. Batman really goes around just severly injuring guys, he is an angry man that just enjoy hurting people, and then giving them to the police. He cant be a hero he's a vigilante and vigilante are borderline psychos. As for the Joker, if you dont understand why he does what he does, thats the point. There is a reason, but he cant put it into words even for him to understand, and in many of the more darker comics even he says he cant understand why he is the way he is. Theres different comic books that give the joker and batman different lights, some comic shows that batman and joker are the classic detective and thief, but the comics theyre adapting into movies from Batman Begins to TDK to whatever more have to do with showing Batman having alot of issues. TDK and whatever happens in the future should they decide to bring the joker back in some form is a serial killer. Its cool if you dont like it or you didnt get what you wanted. But in the end it'll still be listed as a financial and commerically successful movie. Bale is contracted to do t least one more, he wasnt Nolan to come back, but Nolan is undecided, both agree the story has to be superb, so I guess the question is, how does Hollywood make a 3rd batman both more successful and still pleasing the audience and the critics better then TDK?

It is nearly impossible to keep up with your ideas people when you refuse to throw in a paragraph break once in a while.

See, the idea is to separate different ideas you are attempting to express from each other so you don't come off as the literary version of a speed bender.

Oh, and Christian Bale is a complete jerk. His little blow up on set recently ruined any future film he makes for me. I don't want to support someone that would act in such a disgusting matter.

Finally, most of you need to get out of moms basement and get some fresh air.

Oh im sorry, christian got angry, and someone got it on recording, and now he's a total jerk, I forgot because nobody does that oh no, when we get angry we turn that frown upside down and then go on a shooting rampage at work. Oh and Punctuation, you need come out of the closet and get some fresh air.

TDK was an amazing film. The cast was weak with Maggie tryin to take the place of an above average actress in Katie Holmes but to knock Bale as Batman is bogus. Bale was not shown as much in Batman Begins hence his acting wasn't suppose to be to emphasized. The focus was suppose to be on Morgan Freeman, Eckhart and Ledger, all of the actors I felt that made the movie epic. With these three intangible actors showing there epic journey from begin to end in their journeys log was untouchable. Bales voice as Batman sux obviously but what are you gonna do about that, I think alot of people prefer Begins to the Dark Knight because Begins was so unexpected and TDK was greedily awaited for almost 2 years.

i disagree i thonk TDK was an amazing movie they did an unbelievable job on the joker it was the best movie ive seen

The Dark knight was the greatest movie ive seen in my entire life. The cast was really really great. Bale is the best Batman ever, what is it with people hating on him? He is the Greatest batman ever. what else do you want from him. He's smart to change his voice when he's Batman so people wont know he's bruce wayne. TDK is the greatest movie ever. Heath Ledger was amzing, its sad thought that he wont ever be able to be in another Batman movie again.

Yap,Yap, Yap. Much rambling going on here about the film and it's hard workmanship with professional actors and everyone involved alike. Hope to see you critics on the big screen on a big film like this, lets see what your made of.

I have heard a lot of people ragging on Bale in this forum. Fair enough, you say he is flat. But isn't that the point. Batman in TDK was supposed to be feeling tired, almost defeated because he was in turmoil about whether or not he wanted to keep doing it. It wasn't until the end of the movie after two face died that he realised he was not batman. Instead, batman was a separate entity all together. A faceless symbol that could be what ever the city of Gotham needed. A knight, a vigilante, a villain or a hero. I think people will find that in the third movie Bale will bring a new persona to the bat. One which is revitalized and more determined. After all, the Dark Knight just lost his savior, his white knight - lost to two face and the joker, forced back into the shadows.

Overall, TDK was a dark and gritty movie which kept me on my seats edge. Strongly emotive and good use of cinematography. Ledger did an excellent job of creating an ere of insanity which was manic. Basically, the characters beleived they were who they said they were. Great movie, good story. I look forward to the next one.

Johnny Depp As Riddler

i think TDK was damn good i liked both about equal i read that people thought bale was flat i think the story gave equal time to each actor katie holmes shoulda returned i think the way they mad the joker was one of the best jokers ever too bad he wont return who could be the next villian i heard the riddler but id like to see a differnet villian not the same as the old movies something fresh and new i think they should bring in Harleyquin she could be the joker story with out having the joker or how about killer Croc they could make him very scary anyway just a thought

harleyquin and killer croc think of it could be cool so if the writers are out there reading this there is your idea perfect hahaha beauty and the beast

Reading the reactions here about TDK let me bring in a perspective that we may have missed:....

1. The fact that TDK was hard to follow may have been the exact purpose of the film. TDK was about anarchy...about disruption, about "hard to follow" , out of pace chaos. And if that ...in fact was the intent..then my friends we may have witnessed a movie so profound in its genius that we..in a sense have become part of that arnachy. Life immitating the Art. (which is what the joker would've wanted)

2. Begins was about Fear and it did just that..Perfectly. Observe how in TDK you saw Batman's preparations to ambush and then you saw how things get disrupted.. but in Begins you never see his preps...he just appears..because Nolan's take for Begins was to put you in the head of the criminal..that you..the audience is being attacked.

3. I cannot wait for the third! Each movie on its own, when considered for what that particular movie is trying to acheive, is brilliant...and for a fictional comic character nonetheless.. Batman (which i think the 3rd movie will be called..just straight up "batman") will be awesome..i have a predicabment that its core will be "darkness and lack of hope..mixed with distrust". Remember at the end of TDK...he is now the villian..he is now fully become the Dark Knight..now Batman will trully Begin.. the Third movie will be "Batman" both begin's fear + TDK's chaos all in one with a 3rd ingredient.

watch...you;ll see.

Batman begins was good...The Darknight was even better,anyway I love both just as equal.I really don't think Bale's or Ledger's performance was flat,just because TDK wanted them to be played that way.They were both awesome...

i think than ledger was a great actor(but scaaary the way he died in the middle) bale was a bit flat but he is the man for the job.

1. TDK was great. batman begins was a start so the 3rd muns be even greater. i think that it should take til 2011. it will be a greaat.

2. i think than nolan was aa great person to write and derict TDK bbu i think there should be another directerr for the 3rd batman.

3. the villians.
riddler-johnny depp for sure he was great in pirates and his emotion for his cheractor would work for riddler.
catwomen-no catwomen G@Y