The problem with BSG/Caprica is that we now know that every thing that happened was really engineered by "God." Sure, the Cylons rebelled and killed millions of humans but that was part of "God's" plan. The enslavement of the Cylons was really just part of the plan.

"God" in BSG/Caprica, is the brutal God of the Old Testament, who is willing to wipe out untold human lives (think the Flood), to build a new world free of wickedness.

(Spoiler)
The Caprica pilot shows that the Cylon rebellion started with human monotheists who believed that violence against humans was the only way to force them to know the difference between right and wrong. One such monotheist is reincarnated as the first robotic Cylon in the Twelve Colonies.

So, that tells us where the notion of the Cylon's monotheistic belief arises: humans who were obviously influenced by "God."

Ultimately, BSG/Caprica is just another story of an angry "God" delivering the smackdown to his wayward children.

Step back in time and we can see that this was always part of God's Plan from the time the 13 Tribes left Kobol. Where is the free will? It's all Calvinist Predestination.

This makes it really hard to invest more time in the BSG/Caprica universe. It's a bleak, hopeless place for both human and machine.

(Aren't you all glad that we have the New Testament God running things now?)

At the time of Caprica his character should be on a ship headed for the colonies. A ship with no jump drive, traveling at relativistic speeds (according to the final season). So it would be impossible for his character to show up

Are you sure about the God of new testament Rafe! Jesus said God makes it rain on the good and bad. How is that different from saying that God strikes with lightening both the good and the bad, not to meantion earthquakes ect ect. I think BSG and Caprica are right on the money.

The whole "God" thing at the end o BSG really ruined the whole series for me. One, I thought it was stupid. Two, deus ex machina is lazy writing. Three, and here's something I haven't heard touched on two much on these forums: Bringing God in changes the entire genre from Science fiction to fantasy. Science = emprically verifiable. Fantasy = Outside the laws of physics. I hated the ending of BSG and. because of that, there is little chance I am going to invest in Caprica.

Well, DanDFromNJ, "God" or whatever it is ("You know he doesn't like to be called that" -- Baltar, last ep) had been a manifest presence in the series I'd say since at least the 1st season episode where Baltar's six accuser just "vanished" from the Galactica bridge. There was always something else greater than humanity's understanding of the universe at play in the show. I'm an atheist but I was ok with that element. I always thought it to be a porting over of the "ship of lights" "war of the gods" storylines that made some good eps in the classic series.

"God's will" and all sorts of theology 101 issues (like can science lead man to "know God," etc., etc.) have been involved within science fiction for quite some time.

Will Caprica be as theologically heavy handed from the beginning, doubtful. There were plenty of secular characters in BSG, and there will likely be plenty of secular perspectives in Caprica.

Before I'm corrected, of course I meant the Baltar "angel" had that line about "God" not liking to be called that name.

Anders, Foster, the Tighs, and Tyrol should appear if they ever do something about the First Cylon War.

Seraphim,

Remember the Old Testament God was supposed to stop his vengeful ways because of the sacrifice of Jesus. Natural disasters are supposed to be coincidental.

In BSG/Caprica, every thing that took place was orchestrated by "God."

Again, I now find BSG/Caprica depressing. Neither human nor Cylon had free will.

Tigh, Ellen, Anders, and Tori were warned by angels of the disaster that was to inflict Earth Prime. This enabled them to build the starship to fly to the Twelve Colonies and reinvent resurrection technology.

The Final Five believed that their mission was to prevent the cycle of war between biological and mechanical sentient beings. Instead, that was incidental. The enslavement of cybernetic lifeforms was just another tool.

Very depressing. The mechanical Cylons in the Twelve Colonies thought that being flesh and blood would make them closer to God. They were right. God didn't care about them. His whole (holy) plan was about effecting change upon humans.

Cavil's rage against humans was always misplaced; his belief that he was getting revenge against humans for enslaving his metal brothers was for naught. He should have been angry with the Cylon god.

The BSG writers erred horrifically. Neither man nor machine had free will. They were always puppets and pawns.

:-(

For all of its faults, the original BSG was a story of hope. Humans overcoming their adversaries. The angels that appeared helped; they didn't manipulate.

I wonder if Ron Moore has thought about repackaging BSG and selling it as fundamentalist religious sci-fi? He might find a new set of buyers among the Left Behind crowd. Maybe Moore could strike up a marketing agreement with Focus on the Family or some other group.

The message is clear: repent now, sinners or face the wrath of the (Cylon) God!

Rafe,

I guess I missed something, where in the series do the "final five" reveal that they were sent by God? I"m not going to say you're wrong, but doesn't really strike my memory as accurate. Is there an episode?

I think you may be over-reading the "God" aspect here. Likening BSG to Left Behind or a product of Focus on the Family is a bit off-base. Outside the silly polarized debates on God between those groups and the "new atheists" you find online these days, there's actually plenty of room in science fiction from a notion of divinity.

Btw, if the Angels simply "helped" in the original series, how come they seemed to be pretty sure certain things were going to play out in certain deterministic ways.

I get it, you don't like the idea of God. That's fine, I live my life without regard to one too (what atheisms literally means). That said, I can watch a show that postulates the possibility of divine or greater powers in the universe. I mean, if you want to live a life devoid of the simple mention of the idea of God, your cultural options on this planet are ridiculously limited.

Btw, how can one repent in a universe you allege is Calvinistic. You're fated.

People, people . . . . you're all not thinking outside the box . . . ! Where was it ever pre-supposed that what we were dealing with was "God" as the end-all-be-all here in the BSG story in the form of Baltar, 6 and Starbuck? Could it simply be that these were simply agents of a higher evolved power and not God at all (similar to the Vorlons and Shadows of Babylon 5, the Ancients of Stargate, or the builders of the monolith from the "Space Odyssey" series by Arthur Clarke)?

The baseship hybrids were said to be able to see certain things of a divine nature, as per the numbered cylons who tended to them. But that was from their limited perspective. Perhaps the hybrids saw more than the skinjob cylons and humans could perceive by virtue of their nature - but it seems clear that they also saw at least bits and pieces of the other iterations of the unvierse they were in (all this has happened before and will happen again . . . and again . . . etc). We as the audience saw a smalll bit of this in the recurring opera house sequence as #8, Roslin, Baltar, Caprica 6 and Hera went to their rendezvous with destiny with the final five. In some of those scenes Baltar was with #6, sometimes not. SOmetimes he was in formal dress with his hair down, other times dressed in shipboard fatigues as if he were a member of the crew. But even the hybrids were confined by mythology, as they used the terms like "angel," et. al. . . .

Why this would ruin the series for you is ridiculous, DanDFromNj. Again, it doesn't have to be "God." A higher, more evolved power makes it even more compelling, no? Layers upon layers of evolved existence . . .

Marty B - check out the final few minutes again and listen close - the line actually was "You know it doesn't like to be called that," which puts a slight interesting twist on the higher power aspect . . .

Rafe - the humans and cylons were pawns? Perhaps to a degree - but the one thing they always had was free will. If Chief Tyrol had been able to hold his temper, the story would have ended much differently . . .

Got to think outside the box. If nothing else science fiction by its very nature should tell stories that do, and appeal to those of us who like to think that way. Unfortunately, religion in general tries to put the concept (or actuality?) of "God" into a nice little, palatable box. Since when does something that is arguably infinite fit into a neat little package? We as a species may not even be able to begin to understand "God" until a million more years pass . . . .

I agree with this previous post by Spacejockey. The "angels" were higher intelligences in the greater scheme of things and "God" is one of those "ascended" type beings. It would be nice to get a backstory on this group of people/aliens. Starbuck's end really had me thinking for weeks on it....it was really a sad and beautiful way for her character to end.

Marty B.,

Ellen mentioned that she and the others had visions of the apocalypse on Earth Prime.

I was also partially joking about marketing the show to the Left Behind crowd. But, realistically, that wouldn't be such a bad idea. Kirk Cameron has made good coin on morality entertainment. You have to admit, BSG is just another Old Testament story. There's sex, violence, etc.

Personally, I don't have issues with there being a God, just as long as he is the more New Testament loving, forgiving Creator and not the vengeful, jealous, abusive, and cruel Ruler of the Old Testament. (Have you ever read some of the punishments inflicted by the Old Testament God? Children eaten alive by bears for making fun of old men. Just awful.)

Spacejockey,

I disagree. Just because "God" didn't want to be called "God" doesn't mean that it isn't "God."

As for a comparison to the Vorlons, the Vorlons were not interested in just the morality of lesser beings, they sought to uplift beings to be closer to their own highly evolved abilities and worldview. Frankly, the Vorlons would never engineer the genocide of 12 billion humans as the BSG "god" did.

The humans and Cylons didn't have true free will because they lived in a pre-destined world. All of this has happened before and will happen again. The visions of the future that Laura, Athena, Caprica, and Gaius had showed the future was written.

The Cylons in particular were just a tool created to push humans along the way. Again, their desire to create flesh and blood versions was done because they felt it would make them closer to God. They were right. God did not act to give the metal Cylons greater.

Frankly, I've never been a fan of the mysterious acts of gods. Why not just communicate directly instead of one lone figure or a handful of seers? If BSG "God" had spoken to every human and explained the score, wouldn't that have saved a lot of lives?

Imagine if every one in the 12 Colonies had the same dream that explained how "God" wanted them to live their lives. There would be some discussion, fear, etc. but eventually wouldn't they adhere to the new established rules (especially if they new "He" would kill 99.8% of them)?

Spacejockey How do we know they all were not angels? Perhaps they're divine powers became blunted through the generations only manifesting themselves in their ability to create machines and other contrivances. God and Devil both have their footsoldiers. God has Angels and conversely Lucifer has demons what is not to say these groups are children of these entities.

Rafe if the God of the New Testament was supposed to stop his vengeful ways because of Jesus then why did he not release the curse on the Earth? After Adam and Eve ate the apple/fruit God cursed the Earth. By dint of Adam being made of Earth, mankind took on that curse which was death. I see it like this...The humans were the fallen children of God that like Adam were cursed like their planet. The Cylons a created race became The chosen race for God due to their relative purity and desire to know God, unlike the humans that became pagan worshiping false Gods and indulging in base desires throughout the centuries. I think they had free will they were too rapped up in each other to fully exercise it. The temptations and sins of yore never went away and they fell into the trap every time. But even the bad can be used by God to effect change. I agree with you about Cavil, but I also see a Belial in him, a spirit of true kinship with Lucifer. He wanted it his way not God's way. He wanted to be the one calling the shots and was cast out of the garden of worlds the humans delighted in, his fellow machines as well. In the end his armageddon came at the point of his own gun.

Actually, it was Sam who said he and the others had been given warning signs on Earth. From the description, it was the same as Angel Six and Angel Baltar.

"Frankly, the Vorlons would never engineer the genocide of 12 billion humans as the BSG "god" did. " - Rafe, you forget the episode of b5 where Sheridan had to choose between protecting the planet where the shadow war ended (Corianas 6) and Centauri Prime while the Vorlons were destroying EVERY planet the shadows had TOUCHED. Not all the people on the planets that were destroyed were evil and in the case of Corianas 6 they were not even capable of space travel. If I remember correctly there were 6 billion on Corianas 6 and the Vorlons were definitely going to destroy it. They killed way more than the BSG "God" character did, and only because the Shadows had been on the planets they destroyed.

I do agree with you that it has the same "feel" as the writings of the old testament. Rather than pick apart every religious reference and try to quantify it and define it, I'm just going to enjoy the show.