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Terminator timeline: We try to make sense of the futures past
In McG's Terminator Salvation, which opens today, the main events take place in the year 2018, 14 years after Judgment Day and 15 years after Marcus Wright (Sam Worthington) is put to death (or is he?). As an adult John Connor (Christian Bale) says in the trailers for the movie (though not in the movie itself), "This is not the future my mother warned me about."
And how. (Possible spoilers ahead!)
One of the key elements of the fourth installment in the sci-fi franchise is that the future has changed, that the war against the machines must deal with the accelerated development of advanced Terminators and that the outcome is not as pre-ordained as Connor was led to believe: "No fate but what we make."
Things weren't always this messy.
The business of time travel, multiple timelines and alternate realities is by nature complicated, if not downright contradictory. Particularly when you're trying to make a sequel.
The films in the Terminator series have caused confusion and consternation for more than 20 years, thanks to divergent chronologies, revised histories and careless screenwriters. Let's revisit the earlier films to lay this bag of time-traveling snakes out straight. We'll also point out places where sloppy writing has introduced contradictions and apparent errors in the timestream. And we'll even wonder if the heroes of the various films actually manage to hasten the world's destruction as an unintended consequence of their own survival.
As Sarah tells the unborn John in her audio tapes: "God, you can go crazy thinking about all this."
Ages of Sarah and John Connor
The events of the original Terminator movie took place between May 12 and May 14, 1984. In that film, Judgment Day was Aug. 29, 1997, 13 years in the future. The war against the machines was near an end in the year 2029, 45 years in the future, when Skynet sends the first T-800 (then called a "Model 101," played by Arnold Schwarzenegger) back to the past to hunt Sarah Connor (Linda Hamilton). That's also when the adult John Connor sends Kyle Reese (Michael Biehn) after him to rescue Sarah—and to become John's father.
While Reese's age was never disclosed, according to the script for the film, Sarah Connor was 19 years old at the time, placing her date of birth between May 15, 1964, and May 11, 1965. But Sarah's headstone in Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines said that she was born in 1959, making her 25 during the events of the first film. Confused yet?
Terminator 2: Judgment Day was released in 1991, but its events take place in 1995, although the film does not directly specify the day or year. A police monitor shown in the film confirms that John Connor was born Feb. 28, 1985, which makes him 10 years old in the film. (Actor Edward Furlong was born in 1977 and was actually 13 years old at the time of shooting the film.)
While this detail would otherwise be unimportant, in Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, John Connor (Nick Stahl) explains in a voice-over that a T-800 rescued him and his mother from assassination when he was 13. The events of Terminator 3 occur on July 24, 2004, which makes Connor 20 years old and therefore age-appropriate from the point of view of the first film's timeline but would place the events of Terminator 2 in the year 1997. An error or a revision?
Judgment Day
Terminator 3 screws up the series' timeline in other ways. Directly because of the events in Terminator 2, the original "Judgment Day"—Aug. 29, 1997—no longer occurs. But screenwriters John Brancato and Michael Ferris suggest that Judgment Day was merely postponed and that the T-850 Terminator was sent back in time to help John and Kate Brewster (Claire Danes) survive rather than stop the inevitable nuclear holocaust. This means that Judgment Day occurs on July 24, 2004.
In addition, Terminator 3 depicts Sarah Connor's headstone, with her birth in 1959 and her death in 1997. This means that John's mother probably contracted leukemia before the events in Terminator 2 (if we believe they took place in 1995) and died two years after them: John says explicitly that she was diagnosed three years before she succumbed. If we believe that the events of Terminator 2 actually occurred in 1997, then Sarah was dying or already dead by the time they happen.
(In the recently canceled Fox TV series Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, we first meet a 15-year-old John Connor [Thomas Dekker] and an adult Sarah Connor [Lena Headey] in the year 1999, which we are led to believe is only a couple of years after the events of T2. But McG and the producers of the fourth movie say they don't view the events of the TV show as canon for the purposes of the film franchise.)
Thankfully, Terminator Salvation manages to stick mostly to the timeline established in the first two films. In 2018, John Connor is 33, and it will be 11 years before he sends Kyle Reese back in time to protect his mother. Kyle is still an adolescent, although it seems like he'll be age-appropriate by the time the events of the first film take place.
Release Dates
The theatrical release dates of all of the films since the original Terminator have also caused their share of problems for viewers. Terminator 2 was released in 1991, and the present date was never specified on screen, which made the heavy thinkers in the audience dizzy at the prospect of a 13-year-old kid playing 10 in a film that was set nine or 10 years later but released only seven years after the original.
Terminator 3 was released in July 2003, a year before the events in the film take place, eight after the events in the previous film and 12 after the release of T2. Terminator Salvation is being released on May 21, 2009, nine years before the events in it take place and six after T3 was released.
Grandfather paradox
Then there's the multiple paradoxes that occur in the series during each adventure, a problem inherent in all time-travel scenarios. The first film is pretty straightforward: Kyle comes back to 1984, saves Sarah from the Terminator, makes a baby and fulfills his destiny.
According to the plot of Terminator 2, Cyberdyne Systems—the owner of the factory where Sarah kills the original Terminator—finds the arm and CPU of the deactivated cyborg, providing the foundations for technology that leads to the development of Skynet.
But when Sarah, John and the second T-800 destroy the remains of the original Terminator and vaporize Cyberdyne, that should not only logically annihilate all Terminator-related technology, but also erase the very existence of John Connor.
There is also no suggestion in the first Terminator that the John Connor of the future knows he's sending his own father, Kyle Reese, back in time (at least at the beginning of the film, before Sarah records the audio tapes informing him of that fact). By Terminator 2 and certainly by T3, young John knows the truth: that Kyle is daddy.
Does John Connor actually cause Judgment Day and the war?
This raises a question: Did John Connor and Skynet come into existence directly as a result of the events in the first Terminator? Or was John's birth, and the advent of Terminator technology, predestined regardless of whether the Terminator and Kyle Reese went back in time?
All along, we see that the time incursions affect the events of the subsequent movies, and not always in intended ways. The events of the first movie, far from preventing Judgment Day, actually facilitate it through the Terminator's leftover parts.
Another important question: Was John Connor trained to be a great military leader because of the strength of his character or because Kyle Reese told Sarah Connor that he would become the leader of the resistance? Unfortunately, we have no information about how John would have turned out if there had been no time incursion (ignoring the fact that he wouldn't have existed at all): For all we know, he could have experienced a normal childhood with his mother around (and not incarcerated in a mental institution) and developed leadership qualities later. Apparently no one in the first Terminator film's future asked John whether he remembered being rescued when he was 10 (or 13), then protected again when he was 20.
The second movie manages to delay Judgment Day, but it doesn't prevent it. Someone within Terminator 3-era Cyberdyne retained data from the late Miles Dyson's work from Terminator 2, though there is no clear explanation why Skynet continues to develop. We do learn from the T-850 that Judgment Day is "inevitable": So much for "No fate but what we make."
The events of T2 also delay John's acquisition of key information: John Connor and Kate Brewster don't pursue their adolescent romantic relationship as they might have because John takes off and lives "off the grid." As a result, John doesn't learn that Kate's father is instrumental in the activation of Skynet until it's too late to stop it.
Ultimately it probably doesn't matter a whole lot whether John was 10 or 13 in T2 or whether the circle of causality originally, retroactively or even arbitrarily led to John Connor's being born, growing up to be a resistance leader or inadvertently causing Judgment Day. They're still mostly great movies.
But Terminator Salvation is no doubt likely to create its own continuity problems, timeline changes and chronological shifts. In which case, it's probably good there are so many time machines available, because by the end of the film series, we'll need one just to figure out where we are—not to mention when.
By Walt C at 6:16 PM ON 05/21/09
"There is also no suggestion in the first Terminator that the John Connor of the future knows he's sending his own father, Kyle Reese, back in time."
Actually, IIRC, Sarah records a tape for Connor telling him about Reese's identity and she hopes that it won't change his decision to send him back, because he has to.
By Rose at 6:50 PM ON 05/21/09
"There is also no suggestion in the first Terminator that the John Connor of the future knows he's sending his own father, Kyle Reese, back in time (at least at the beginning of the film, before Sarah records the audio tapes informing him of that fact). By Terminator 2 and certainly by T3, young John knows the truth: that Kyle is daddy."
Wrong, IMO. Kyle says that John gave him a picture of his mother. He never knows why; it was a treasured thing, and an odd gesture from the 'future leader/savior of mankind' to do. But Kyle fixated on the picture and then, when given the mission, on Sarah - why any of that, if John didn't know who his father was?
By SCI FI Wire at 6:55 PM ON 05/21/09
Rose: It's possible you're right, or it's possible John simply wanted Kyle to be very motivated to protect his mother. We don't really know for sure, at least before the events of the movie change the future. Sarah, for her part, doesn't think John knows; otherwise, she wouldn't agonize about whether or not to tell him that Kyle is his father.
By Methos at 7:19 PM ON 05/21/09
Apparently the film sucks. As of Thursday, 33% on the Rottentomatoe meter.
By REDante at 7:28 PM ON 05/21/09
There's a whole section and webpages filled with questions not so much about the timeline but simply continuity errors. In the end James Cameron never envision that he was making a franschise at the time. In interviews and documentaries and commentary's he mentioned at the time he wasnt thinking bout sequels.
In T2 it was also mentioned by the Terminator when he was telling Sarah Connor that 3 years from now Skynet will be complete and become self aware, which suggests that the year could be 1994 and they dont explain that except simply as a script error that didnt need fixing. Again in Commentary James Cameron wasnt so much interested in continuity as he was in telling and finishing the story. Also he said he tries to explain that the best solution is to not think about it and just nod your head yes. One of the biggest questions about T2 was if they had to destroy everything what about the arm Arnold lost when he was fighting the T1000?
T3 was just a mess and best forgotten, thats the tv show did. The tv show pretended it never happen. So its possible that when we see Salvation we may get another way of how it all began again.
Then lets not forget the books and comic books which went their own direction. And someone came up with an idea of how it all started was actually the time machine. The person wrote a story that in the original timeline the future had a nice man and machine co-existence kind of like ghost in the shell. Some company was designing a new way for travel instantly (if I remember it was some kind of teleportation device) so when they were testing it out they didnt know they inadvertantly designed a time mchine, it went out of control and the facility was blown but not before a couple of things were lost in the past. One was just an ordinary robot that was discovered and would be the building blocks to skynet and the other was Kyle Reese who happen to be a soldier no matter what future he was in but keeping it a secret since he knows nobody would believe hes from the future.
So the story went that he met sara connors under different circumstances had john with her, he orignally trained him to be more like a soldier and then judgement day happened. Sara died during judgement day and Kyle died after the events but not before he told John the truth about everything. John didnt believe it until skynets machine started to come into play and that he came into contact with his father again as a young boy. So thats when the whole process started.
John didnt know he could send his father back until he got information that skynet was purposely building a machine for time travel, and thats when he decided to come up with the ida of sending his father back, thus creating a new timeline for Kyle Reese to go into Terminator 1 and so forth.
Now if you want to know why does Connor exist even after T2, well some people say because his father comes from an alternate time that doesnt exist anymore that somehow he is immune to the effects of space and time. Other people say that going back in time you cant change anything because it already happen meaning that all youre doing is creating a parrael universe, thus "theres no fate...." deal doesnt matter because fate always gives you a reason to go back.
Anyways in conclusion time travel movies with always have errors and its best not to think about them and just go with the flow. I mean look at Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure....
By VichusSmith at 9:00 PM ON 05/21/09
Are you addressing REDante's TLDR stuff, or this article?
By sanga at 10:12 PM ON 05/21/09
Well since everytime someone goes back in time it causes a change to the timestream just think of it as a bunch of alternate universes like the comics suggest... also the origional ending for t2 which was changed showed Kyle Reese returning to the future from a time jump and that the future was saved no war and no skynet. It showed an elderly Sarah Conner and John Conner as the US president or something. Im not sure if that was actually filmed or just on script but it was the way the book ended. I think the studio went with a more ambigous ending to protect their franchise rights though.
By Greg L. at 11:08 PM ON 05/21/09
There has to be an "Ur" or original timeline unaffected by time travel; however, there would be no John Connor (son of Sarah and Kyle) in that original timeline to start the ball rolling. I guess that's why it's called suspension of disbelief.....
By pocketdoom at 12:13 AM ON 05/22/09
And everyone always forgets about the most important part of time travel.
The first Terminator movie takes place at the end of Skynet. Kyle Reese says Skynet loses and this is a last ditch effort to win. The other two movies had newer terminator models. WHY? Skynet sent those back when it still had control. Skynet only sent Arnold back to 1984 because it did not have any other options.
I could go on and on about why I like t3 and think everyone misses the point on time travel but it is hard to be polite sometimes.
By Marty B. at 12:49 AM ON 05/22/09
Greg L. "there _has to be_ an "Ur" or original timeline unaffected by time travel"?
If Terminator or any story with time travel at its core wanted to really well with your mind, one could simply posit: no, the notion of a pure unadulterated time stream is simply a delusion of human perception. C'mon, man have you ever heard of this guy Einstein?
Maybe, a computer beyond conventional artificial intelligence, let's say it's a quantum intelligence, can think through the chaotic ebbs and flows of this thing human's fathom as time and get the leg up on us merely sentient creatures.
By RED9 at 2:17 AM ON 05/22/09
Your wrong about the date of the first Judgment Day. In the first Terminator movie, Reese says "There was a war. A few years from now. Nuclear war." The definition of "few," from dictionary.com," is "not many but more than one." Meaning prior to 1989, probably sometime between 1986-1987. Atleast 5 Judgment Day dates: c1987, 1997, 2004, c2010, and 2018. The series opened up the idea of multiple alternate universes converging in the past making each real and thus void. Also, the series deletes T3, which T4 seems to do, and hasnt contradicted anything in the new movie.
By growger at 8:07 AM ON 05/22/09
I don't think it's fair that they're trying to make the timeline events as if T3 never happened. Skynet knew it couldn't get to Conner so it takes out the people that would help Conner become who he would and fight wqith him to end Skynet. Plus, the T-X gave Skynet a leg-up by uploading future programs to the T-1s, improving their software. If McG had really tryed to do a better plot line for this movie, he could have included some hints of T3 or maybe even something about the events of the series. E-mail Fox, change the future. Make them bring back the series or at least give it to the Sci-Fi chanel to continue the series.
By beakernx01 at 11:57 AM ON 05/22/09
There always seems to be this assumption that there is only one John Connor. Sarah Connor, in an unadulterated timeline, to go on to have a son by ANY father and name him John. Skynet could have been developed by the military, as shown in T3, as a software program, with no help from the future or things sent tot he past. Judgement Day could still occur and then, John Connor could survive to become the leader of the resistance. The photo of Sarah and the story about Judgement Day and John Connor could have been a myth John invented. No one ever says they actually heard the tape. Regardless, this John Connor could send Kyle Reese back in time to save Sarah, telling him whatever story. BUT Reese fathering a child with Sarah creates a DIFFERENT John Connor than would have otherwise been born. So it is NOT the same man. But this new John Connor is fed the whole history of JD and Skynet and creates a new causality loop.
By TheScarletPimp at 3:29 PM ON 05/22/09
Without looking too much into this, since I am just reading this quickly on my lunch break, I have always had a problem with two things in the Terminator franchise.
1.) I think it was a mistake to make Kyle Reese John's father. First of all, he couldn't be his original father, obviously. So who was his original father? Why not have him be someone to save and make sure that he ends up with Sarah so they can have John (this, of course, is ignoring the fact that pregnancy is quite complicated and if you were to alter time, even slightly, you could completely destroy many lives by having their moment of conception not occur (or we could have Jane Conner as the heroin of the future) -- something I ignore when enjoying the Back to the Future trilogy -- and to have Kyle impregnate Sarah with only one try is lucky too, which to me implies that John's birth could have been accelerated when Kyle became his father so he ended up being born before he originally was. Either way, now the John of the future will no longer look like he did when he sent Kyle back because he is genetically different. Maybe the man who Arnold's terminator was based on could be John's father and he was created to look that way so that he could get close to John. That's at least one other possibility. There is much more to discuss on this topic, but no enough time for me right now...
2.) And feel free to explain why this can't happen, but if I were going to send a terminator back in time to kill Sarah Conner and I failed, I would just do it again and again until I succeeded. Maybe even go back further in time and kill Sarah as a child or her mother or something. Why do they always send terminator's back years later, letting time progress? And why do they only send one terminator? Why not a bunch? Why not send the more advanced model (T-1000 or the TX) back to the 80's to kill Sarah? Even if John sends Arnold and Kyle and a bunch of others, the machines would probably still have an advantage. I mean, if killing is their game, they aren't as good at it as they probably should be. Perhaps someone can enlighten me as to why they can't do it that way, besides the fact that it would not work as well for the franchi$e.
By KerrAvon at 3:31 PM ON 05/22/09
Here's my problem with all three previous movies.
In all three, the "Evil" Terminator arrives before the "Good" Terminator (or Reese in the 1st movie). Reese even states that after Skynet sent the Terminator back, they raided the facility and sent him back.
I believe it is safe to assume that if there was no one there to protect Sarah, the Terminator would have killed her. Therefore, the send the Terminator was sent back, John Connor would have ceased to exist. The fact that he didn't means the Terminator failed and therefore there was no real reason to send Reese back other than to be John's father.
But hey, they're just movies and I liked all three of them.
By Dreugan at 4:46 PM ON 05/22/09
Scarlet,
Here is the most likely scenario. And its not my explanation - but stolen from another website.
Kyle was sent back in time to make sure the future leader of the resistance isn't erased - this future leader isn't John Connor. However Kyle fails and decides to live out his life. He meets a waitress while eating at a diner. Sarah Connor. They meet , fall in love, have a child etc etc. So Kyle decides to teach John all bout military tactics in the hope he can become the new leader or give the human resistance a fighting chance.
The rest is history or ..err the future , you get what I'm saying =).
By Halore at 12:30 PM ON 05/24/09
If you think about what was explained in T3, it starts to make sense a lil bit.
Lets look at what the origional time line was sposed to be.
Sarah gives birth to John Conor, original father? who knows
Up until T2 john was uneffected by any conflict containing, lets say (taking out T1 and T2) john was susposed to hook up with kate brewster after thier 7-minutes in heaven (explained in T3), John would have met Kate's father, and more than likely pursued a military career, become a commander....then judgement day occurs, John survives and becomes the leader of the resistance.
As for the development of skynet, the goverment is always up to something, this could have been something the government was going to develop eventually, it could have been something other than skynet, and the event for the arm and chip remaining after T1 made it more efficient for the machines, cus it was developed sooner.
Now for the arguement of john conor's father. Dont forget that John Conor is just a name. In the original timeline he could have had a normal father, then the events occur, then lets send kyle reese back.
Also the arguement with time travel and the occurence of events, "Everything happens exactly how it is supposed to happen"
The T4 movie made me feel like the machines wanted Kyle Reese to live, as though the machines knew what it ment for them, as a way to "ensure" thier future. The machines had thier chance to kill Kyle, and didnt take it.
By Rigel Kent at 5:24 PM ON 05/25/09
Sci-fi Wire Said: Rose: It's possible you're right, or it's possible John simply wanted Kyle to be very motivated to protect his mother. We don't really know for sure, at least before the events of the movie change the future. Sarah, for her part, doesn't think John knows; otherwise, she wouldn't agonize about whether or not to tell him that Kyle is his father.
Rose is right. A flashback showed that Reese had the picture for a while before he was sent back, even though he wasn't selected for the mission until right before he was sent. So your motivation angle doesn't make any sense.
And think about, a killer machine is being sent back to kill your mother. Why would you only send one guy? Only if you already knew that's the way it was supposed to happen.
By rinkrat at 5:59 PM ON 05/26/09
I think I have stumbled on a way to explain and visulize the time travel paradoxes at least in theory. One must assume that there is only 'one' timeline and that time only moves forward along the line itself. The line is represented as an x-axis and each event in the teminator series can be plotted on it from left to right as time moves from past to future. The only way to move to the left (and hence travel back in time) is to depart from the x-axis. Though we don't yet know how to do this, we must also assume it is possible. Now a Y-axis is needed and a 'loop' can be created to the past. That being said, it is now possible to exist in the past even before ones birth. For eample, Kyle Reese in T1existed and died before he was born by virtue of 'insertion' into the timeline by a time machine. This event is independant of his other existance by birth and is a simply another event on the timeline. When all the events of movies are plotted on the time line axis (assuming date sequences are cleaned-up) the result will be a chronological sequence along the x-axis along with clockwise and/or clockwise (insertion) loops to represent backwards time travel. One of my other assumptions is that one can only travel forward 'on' the timeline (i.e u cannot make time itself travel backward). Perhaps In the big picture the outcome of man vs machine is indeed pre-ordained (ironic twist to no fate but what we make); so that is no matter what Sky-Net does to erradicate mankind, the end result is that man will prevail. Therefore an infinite number loops could be inserted into the 'singlar' timeline but the end result will always be the same. The only thing the loops change is the events in between. Well that's my take on it, comments r welcome.
By Steven at 2:40 PM ON 06/09/09
"Another important question: Was John Connor trained to be a great military leader because of the strength of his character or because Kyle Reese told Sarah Connor that he would become the leader of the resistance? Unfortunately, we have no information about how John would have turned out if there had been no time incursion (ignoring the fact that he wouldn't have existed at all)"
Not true. Going by your view of the timeline, Kyle Reese came from the 'original' timeline and that John's father would have been someone different. However, Kyle tells Sarah in T1 that she raises him in the time before the war to be a leader and fighter, not sure of the words in the film. This suggests that Sarah knew the war was coming and that the events in T1 had already happened. Similar to how 'Lost' is presenting its timetravel situation. So John was prepared by Sarah because she knew what was coming and stepped up the task, and with a father such as Klye he's made of the right stuff!
I don't understand this notion that John's original father was not Kyle. John gives Kyle a picture of his mum in the future, simply because he knows he is going to be his father. Although the events have not happened, John knows they will unfold.
There is no fate but what we make for ourselves is not mentioned in T1, Kyle simply says that John asks her to be strong in the following years as the future is not set. Suggesting that John of the future is aware of the other attacks, the probelm of the timelines lies not just with T3 and Salvation, but with the original director James Cameron, as he introduces a different theory to the timelines. No longer are the actions already in place, but things can be changed and altered.
By JT at 12:18 AM ON 08/09/09
ok.... only thing i dont understand and doesnt make sense to me is that in T4 John Connor sends Kyle Reese back in time to be his father. How would John exist to do so if he is infact already older than Kyle (his father). it is impossible for John to exist because kyle isnt born yet. you cant send someone back in time now to be your father because you wouldnt be alive to do so.
By Brufnus at 7:17 PM ON 12/04/09
Actually, I've seen a single movie in which I've been unable to come across any - otherwise almost inevitable - timeline inconsistencies. I've tried to find some, but haven't been able to.
It's the movie "The Butterfly Effect", which handles the timeline in a way that makes the movie quite unique in this aspect.
Every single change of the past reflects as expected in the future, in a very elegant way indeed.
By hbspiffy at 9:55 PM ON 01/14/10
@rinkrat: I... I think I love you.
I agree with you completely on the single timeline option. However, I think skynet is smarter than people git it credit. Why does it create time travel? For the hell of it?
No, it has been researching time travel all this time because it knows that certain events have to happen in order for it to be created, just as certain events have to happen for the Connors to be as important as they are. There is a lot of advanced-move chess out there, like 900 moves advance. I could give you my theories, but I would like to avoid a WALLOFTEXT. Just think about it.
I have been attempting to combine a cohesive, self-agreeing timeline to include all of the events of at least the 4 movies and TV show (possibly a book or comic or two... even Robocop vs terminator!), but every time I think I have it done, another nice little wrinkle appears. I'm having fun tho.
I never understood people insisting on the multiple timeline theory. I especially dislike people that say it is 'obviously' impossible that Kyle is not John's father in the first iteration. If so many people believed that, then there should be a hell of a lot more atheists out there. =D
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hbspiffy:
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