hmmm - an hour with rdm. can we be armed?

Only if I could go back in time and prevent the moron from ruining Battlestar Galactica. Although I guess we could still prevent future atrocities.

Thanks very much for posting this. I wish I could have been there. There were SOME good questions, but most could have been answered if people had just been as obsessed as me and listened to the podcasts and special features. Due to this, we couldn't delve deeper than what Ron Moore has already gone on record as saying.

Also, it's too bad no one asked Mr. Moore about the political issues of the show. Doesn't the very fact that people supposedly don't mind discussion of controversial issues on the show (which is only done to help change society by challenging viewers to get them thinking about such things) mean that the mission fails? Doesn't the fact that many dismiss what the show's really saying about issues because it's science fiction essentially mean those people aren't sufficiently reached and that society doesn't change for the better? Isn't it at least time that, now that the show's done, Ron Moore speak specifically about the most pressing issues of our time and draw historical parallels between events on the show and our world to now engender this positive change? I'm frustrated with the idea that these very courageous writers like Moore, Chris Carter, Ira Steven Behr, etc create venues for political discussion but allow things to remain vague enough in the fandom discussion to preclude things from percolating into social change.

Hey Ronald D. Moore, why do you suck?

Mr. Moore, please do get a hair cut and please do *not* make anymore "science fiction", since you obviously do not know what real science fiction is!

I'd rather drink gasoline and pee on a brush fire than spend an hour with this buffoon. Hey Ron, thanks for ruining BSG!

Hey, Screw all of you guys!!! His BSG was one of the best shows ever made. It will always be better than that piece of crap original BSG. It amazes why people love that show. It completely sucks. You're just jealous that his show was superior to the original. Now go choke on that.

I agree with the above post. The pilot for Virtuality ran rings around ABC's lame Defying Gravity.

Come on everyone - play nice!

Criticise the man, his shows and the views of others by all means, but don't resort to abuse. It does you no credit.

Everyone has the right to love or loathe various shows. There is no right or wrong in this, only opinion. I like reading your opinions, but when it turns into a slanging match, it becomes ugly.

Personally, I look forward to hearing what RDM has to say.

RDM is a great scifi writer, and nuBSG was great...the only problem is , he should have just had a smidgen more creativity, and Scifi should have trusted him slightly more, and allowed him to create his own IP that borrowed from the BSG premise, but didn't totally destroy what came before.

Was a great show either way, and I'm glad I was fortunate enough to see it during it's prime, instead of 20 years from now when it'll seem dated and quaint similar to the original.

I think there's the negativity expressed here, that is, because Moore sort of had us BSG fans trusting him, but the final season was a huge disappointment. Rather than finishing the stories that, over the entirety of the show, we all enjoyed and wondered about, it bored us and couldn't have been less "BSG-esque". For instance, I wanted to know more in season four about:
1. During "Razor" we were given the immensely entertaining indication that at least some of the original ("..by your command..!!)" '70's BSG series' cylon models survived the evolution of the skin job cylons: what was that story?!!!!! This was fascinating and clever ...but no dice.
2. We season 1 - 3 BSG fans love the battles, the cylons, and the cylon characters - yet in season four none of these were given the weight that Starbuck, etc. received. This was disappointing to say the least (and it was surprising).
3. In the season cliffhanger for the third season - Gaius Baltar took refuge on a cylon ship (along with President Roslyn and others as some humans wanted cylons off all human ships; and Adama and the President disagreed with them). On the cylon ship that they took refuge on, in the midst of a gun battle, Baltar just rants about religion, gods, and faith to (cleverly), of all things, a cylon centurion; who, in this scene, is shown listening intently - obviously hearing Baltar's meaning!!! All of us, in our group of friends, watching together thought that the centurion must have taken in the concepts and views that Baltar was espousing and downloaded these rants and the concepts to the cylon net before that particular centurion is shown blown apart, after Baltar's rant, during the ensuing melee. Did Baltar impart religion or at least faith to the entire cylon net through his heard rant?! This was never further discussed, explained, or anything. Ugh.
4. In Adama's quarters there is an epic painting of the battle between the original '70's BSG cylon models and humans (indicating, further, the BSG backstory). Why were their no retrospectives or at least an episode dedicated to the first war between the pre-"skin job" cylons and humans?
Finally, we heard at the end of the final BSG episode, last spring, that there would be a mini-series showing the cylons' point of view (again - sounds great). I have heard nothing else about this show. When is that happening? It sounds much more interesting and entertaining than season 4.

These are my reasons for my disappointment in and sort of indifference (now) towards Moore. Honestly, I think that during the writing for season four Moore was more taken with his own success than he was focused on giving the fans a huge, entertaining, and 'wow'ing' season 4. I mean did we want to see more about cancer, "All Along the Watch Tower", and Starbuck's neurosis or centurions, cylon characters, and space battles?!!!- thus the criticism.

You can argue that Season 4 was slow at times (personally, I liked it) but I see much of criticism coming as a result of Moore inserting God into the storyline at the end. Personally, I am attracted science fiction because I like being open to possibilities and God is a possibility (at least I hope so). I'm not going to hate Moore because he inserted God into the plot anymore than I would hate Lucas for inserting The Force into Star Wars or Kubrick for inserting The Monolith into 2001. They are all expressions of something in the fabric of the universe that is beyond our current comprehension. Who is to say where science ends and God begins?

There has never been any show worse than the soap opera that dared call itself Battlestar Galactica. Those that think this show is even remotely as good as the one & only REAL Battlestar Galactica from 1978 are usually choking on something else.

If you think nuBSG was the worst show ever aired, then you have obviously never watched a single night of television in your entire life, which makes your whole opinion suspect.

I totally agree on your views of how people should be able to express themselves freely about the subject matter without engaging in personal attacks on posters, j. Well said.

Arlene, "The Plan" is coming to DVD on October 27th and will include 21 more minutes of footage than what will air on TV. Order yours right now and you'll get a great discount and will help get more TV movies funded by Universal.

I also agree with you that we didn't get enough of the cylon perspective in Season 4. However, I think the real reason behind a lot of the loss in quality writing had to do with having to rush to finish things this season because Syfy wouldn't promise a 5th season. Another essential factor in the dropping quality of the show has to do with Ron Moore not rewriting people's episodes. He never mentions taking a pass on scripts in this season. Season 1 had him heavily involved in rewriting every aspect of the show and it was the best. While Season 2 had some lousy eps, it also had even better eps than Season 1 like Pegasus and Lay Down Your Burdens. Season 3's best story was the Ron Moore-penned season opener "Occupation"/"Precipice". There were some fantastic eps written by Michael Taylor, Mark Verheiden and even great eps like MIchael Angeli's "The Son Also Rises", Jane Espenson and Anne Cofell-Saunders' "Dirty Hands", and David Weddle and Bradley Thompson's "Maelstrom", but the action-oriented eps like "Torn"/"A Measure of Salvation" and "Eye of Jupiter"/"Rapture" lacked all the subtlety and texture longer cuts might have afforded them. Around Season 3, Ron Moore stops being as involved. And in Season 4, he removes himself completely from rewrites. The best eps are his and, as a result, the other eps vary greatly in quality. A show is only as good as its head writer. Also, David Eick became less involved in Season 3 onward; he was a great editor and his departure burdened Ron Moore with editing duties, which he wasn't always the best at doing.

Personally, though, I would have liked less Starbuck and much more Lee Adama and political stories. I was very tired of a the very self-conscious focus on the religious aspect of the show and prophesy.

Still the best finale of any show I've seen, though. The extended eps on the Season 4.5 set really improve the season, too.

CopRock was far superior to the soap BSG. Who can't see that?

Arlene, another thing that was revealed in the exposition-heavy episode "No Exit" was that the centurions came up with the idea of One God before the Final Five created the skinjobs. So, Baltar wasn't telling anything new to the centurion in "The Hub". However, I do agree that there seemed to be something missing in the storytelling of the centurions. I expected them to play a much bigger part once the node repressing their thinking was removed. It was strongly hinted at in the first half of Season 4, but they just did as told by the rebellious cylons and had a very boring role, it turned out.

I'd spend an hour with this guy but I fear at minute 59 he'd say "Just kidding, God did this too, haa haa." What a schmuck.

Muldfeld, I think your frustration here "with the idea that these very courageous writers like Moore, Chris Carter, Ira Steven Behr, etc create venues for political discussion but allow things to remain vague enough in the fandom discussion to preclude things from percolating into social change" is actually a failure to recognize that what you think is your "identification" with the progressive agenda of your favorite Hollywood science fiction writers is actually a "projection" of your belief in the "transformative" power of science fiction. I just don't think anyone in your pantheon is as seriously invested in social change as you believe they are, hence their willingness to produce entertainment that falls short of being truly transformative. These guys work well with network studios for a reason, and it's not because they're subversive geniuses. In the end, they are masters at pandering to a middlebrow audience, your revelatory experiences with these wares are testament to that.

Muldfeld, jp, and Moderator,
Mulfeld, Thank you for your insider-insight. It's interesting. To you and jp I want to be clear that I thought Baltar's religious rant was very in-step with his character (narcissist, defensive per insecurities or fear, etc.), so I adored that the show had the nerve to portray the centurion that he ranted to as interested and listening or, more importantly, apparently hearing Baltar’s meaning. Then, the fact that the centurion blew up but we knew, too, that the centurions were linked together via a network and this was just enticing. So, yes, we fans were aware that there were parallels between BSG's storyline and then national/international politics. The final season's storyline (as you suggest, Muldfeld) seems to leave much of the really entertaining nerve (audacity?!) in the prior seasons' storylines behind.
The original BSG was brilliant for the same reason, its then audacity: women were viper pilots along with men, religion was a part of the storyline, and (like Space 1999) it was yet another show about humans in space, besides Star Trek (SciFi fun!). Yes, there were '70's cliché’s in the original (cheeky and pretty people; women’s uniforms were different than the men's to say the least, etc.), but it was the ‘70’s.
BSG’s final episode did wrap up the Battlestar’s character’s lives well. I agree. They did have a lot to cover in the final season depending on where the writers’ attentions were placed. What bothered me was the imbalance (as, again, you spoke to, Mulfeld) that was placed in the final season, heavily weighed on specifically the Battlestar’s characters (almost to the point of yawning – I mean I knew Starbuck had a rough childhood – I got it – just leave the “All Along the Watch Tower” and piano playing out, and just tell me how Apollo saw her ship blow but Starbuck returned some time later in a shiny new viper). I was pining for one more “dradis contact”, skin jobs’ stories, centurions being centurions, and ensuing battle. It was almost cheating for the Battlestar to go off into the sun ala Anders and his hardwired-oracle-self. I cared about that ship as much as any character. (To rant, myself: wouldn’t the newly arrived and just settling Earthlings need the fleets’ parts or even one or two ships left whole for Earth shuttle transportation? In the beginning of the show Battlestar was going to become a museum – why would it be sent off into the sun?! ).
In the end, “it has all happened before and it will all happen again” was poignant and cool: who hasn’t wondered if the total amalgam of Earth creatures that we’re aware of, today, were really the first; or the only ones. So, yes, to be fair some was good but a lot was weighted unevenly, and a lot of cool plot lines and characters were left out.
Finally, to the Moderator, I mean no disrespect to you but rather being a fan of the first three seasons of BSG, appreciate the venue to discuss my take on the show, including the final season. So, I mean no disrespect to anyone, but rather I think it’s great that there’s even a dialogue still going about it.

I think one of the things that urks a lot of people about the ending is everyone giving up their technology since science fiction is about progress and, if you are a fan of it, the thought of regressing like that is distasteful. Personally, I couldn't conceive of making that choice. However, I also didn't see everyone I cared about murdered by machines, then get hounded by those same machines who wanted to finish the job, all the while having to live for years in a metal ship with no sun, no nature and limited food and water.

One thought I did have after the finale was what if everyone didn't give up their technology? What if pockets still existed? That could explain legends such as Atlantis and Lemuria and seemingly advanced usage of technology by the Egyptians and Mayans. What happened to most of those civilizations? Did some divine agents who did not want humans to advance technologically before they were ready for it destroy them as a result? When Head Six and Balter were in the present, were they debating whether we were ready now or whether we needed to be "stalled" again? Actually, it could make for a pretty interesting sequel set in present day Earth. In some ways, it dovetails with Edward James Olmos' view that Bladerunner is the sequel to BSG. You could argue that The Matrix and Terminator are too.

@Muldfeld's Therapist Funniest.name.evar!

And I even agree with what you said. Go figure. :p lol

I do think you have a point, "Muldfeld's Therapist", regarding the idea that perhaps these producers/writers have a limited desire to provoke change, but I disagree that they don't think their fiction can actually do so. Ask yourself, why Nazi propaganda and many other forms of propaganda and fiction are viewed as so dangerous. If stories can be used for evil, might they not be used for good as well?

I do KNOW that Ira Behr fought very hard to make "The 4400" have moral ambiguity and was countermanded several times by the USA Network. I don't think Behr and Moore and Carter are so cynical that they're trying to appeal to folks like me; it's much more likely that they're writing about issues that speak to them. Especially Moore and Behr do have to fight to get what they want on the air, especially Moore and Behr. And if it were really so profitable, J.J. Abrams and all those writers for major networks would be doing it, too.

Finally, I really dislike the way you're used my name to intentionally provoke me. I have a strong sense of exactly who you are; you've done this before and I DON'T LIKE IT. If you disagree with me, fine, but you always take on such a condescending and attacking tone, Marty B.

Um, excuse me? Perhaps you ought to keep this between you and your therapist rather than pulling me into your fantasies. I know you're the target of a lot of slander, so I'll forgive you the irony of slandering me while trying to lash out at your critics.

I have no problem saying I think you're silly under my byline.

If it really isn't you, Marty B., then I apologize. This person had a lot of what I thought was your writing style.

S'ok, Muld. I accept your apology but do still think you're silly. It should also be pretty apparent, I'm not your only antagonist here.

FWIW, I agree with you that your pantheon of writers do write about issues that speak to them; but I disagree with you as to how committed they are to using those issues for specific social change. In fact, in a dialogue Ira Glass recently had with Joss Whedon, Whedon said something to the effect of BSG being a superior show to anything he's put on the air to date because it puts social-political issues "out there" but prefers to dwell in ambiguity as opposed to a liberal/progressive insistence ("like me" Whedon jibbed).

It seems to me you seek a totalizing earnestness in your television that would make all entertainment like "Crash" (the bad Oscar winning one, not the adaptation of the Ballard one).

The only truly progressive things I found about BSG was its mixed gender military throughout (while acknowledging the sexual repercussions within an all too human military) and later in the season "hey, Gaeta's gay but we're not making a big deal out of it." On the other hand you have Cylon polyamori trysts that maybe some fringers would find "subversive" but most folks would see sexy sensationalism for sexy sensationalism.

In the end, in Shatner's words, it was just a TV show, albeit a good one.

You're one of my few detractors who writes quite well, Marty B. I guess you're not the only one.

I agree with the idea of exposing moral ambiguity where it exists in the real world. To even suggest that terrorist suicide bombers aren't "evil", but that their acts depend on the situation and, therefore, are morally ambiguous is both highly political, subversive, and true to history -- rather than appealing to some CNN-style hypocritical notion of what's civilized violence and what isn't. So, I think Whedon would agree with me.

Besides, there are many issues on which one wouldn't depict moral ambiguity. Whedon would point to the repression of women in our society and Ron Moore's BSG pretty blatantly pointed to class structure in "Dirty Hands". So, I'm not silly at all.

And the problem with "Crash" in my mind had to do with subtlety, not so much with its mission. "Babel" did what "Crash" did much better, and BSG does far, far better than what Eastwood's "Letters From Iwo JIma" did in depicting the humanity of "the other" and the cruelty of "our side."

The biggest mistake traditional fiction writers like George Lucas make is in making the heroes perfect and the villains so unrelatably evil that, in the end, the picture he paints doesn't resemble our world and fails to create change among the audience. He wanted Americans to see that the Evil Empire was like America attacking the rebellious Vietnamese, but American audiences didn't see that, so they didn't act on that conviction in a proper way. John McCain, actually, thinks that he's akin to Luke Skywalker (based on his 2000 campaign), when Lucas saw his role in bombing thousands of Vietnamese dead for the sake of control over a people's fate as akin to the work of the real evil empire, America. The trick is to show how people who can be kind in some ways can delude themselves or simply behave atrociously in other areas of life. George W. Bush and Pol Pot were said to be good fathers, but treated their peoples disgustingly and without respect.

I know that the issues upon which BSG touched were far broader and more poignant than you see.

Speaking of "Crash", Ira Steven Behr is the head writer of the TV series "Crash" and has taken the show in a whole new direction for Season 2, after the supposedly critically disliked Season 1 headed by Glen Mazzara. You can be sure that Mr. Behr will explore more political issues, and I KNOW he cares about improving the world with his fiction because of the issues he tackles that are very similar to what Ron Moore did on BSG + issues of poverty and homelessness. The man cares and I love him for it!