creppy dad by far.

Its all fun and games until someone dies playing Qab jIH nagil.

abslutely ridiculous, stupid, absurd, oh, and did i mention STUPID! does such a language actually exist? regardless, i feel sotty for the kid

CORRECTION: i feel SORRY for the kid

More likely to turn the poor sod into an accountant than a goth, surely?

To set the record straight:

1) The Speers family raised their son bi-lingually, not exclusively in Klingon. They are not residents of the Twin Cities (or Minnesota, for that matter). The news reporter who wrote the article had to pick and choose which items to include from the interview and this was left out.

2) Language acquisition is non-exclusive; i.e., learning multiple languages actuality improves the overall ability to acquire language, much like cross-training in sports improves athleticism.
Studies of multilingual children have proven this and are used by the Esperanto Society as a plug for learning constructed languages in addition to traditional language courses. So, in fact, the Speers did their son a service.

3) Dr. Speers is a first-rate professional, as are the other Klingon experts who helped us on our software project and linguists who consult on our mainstream applications. We are grateful for the opportunity to work with them.

Best regards,
Loring Harrop
General Manager
Ultralingua, Inc.

Is Minnesota realy a state? Do they allow people to wander the streets without supervision? f6jre6

I feel bad for the child. Spending a chunk of his childhood unable to follow TV. Socialize outside of his family. And what about learning to read? By the time school starts he'll be far behind the rest of his class.

Also the language is very cold and harsh. It's almost like being mean to your kid ( and isolating him) for the most important part of his psychological developement. Who is cruel enough to use his son in an experiment like this?

Heed These Words Of Wisdom....

IT`S JUST A TV SHOW.....

YOU HAVE TURNED IT INTO A COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME.....

GET A LIFE !

UltraLingua guy might be right about language, but klingon isnt a laguage. There isnt any klingon in this universe that has ever spoken klingon, despite the fantasy of some waaaay gone geekoids.

You give scifi a creepy twist. Really.

Yes duneboat, such a language really exists. No, Klingons do not, and nobody believes they do. At least that's what we tell YOU people... lol

No, the Klingon Language Institute has been around for at least a decade and a half. And as much as you might think that it's just a 'fad' for scifi geeks, it's actually a well educated administration devoted to the interests and studies of a lanquage (the original sounds which were created by James "Scotty" Doohan and developed / elaborated on by Marc Okrand, renown linguist ) that some find intriguing enough to devote significant time to. And like any organization or business, deserves the respect for it's accomplishments like any author, writer, producer, artist or similar who participate in the continuance of a genre.

Now... that said, I'm not sure that teaching your child an artificial language just to see if he/she actually learns it is really in the child's best interest... but then I'm not the child's parent.

"Does this guy seriously want his son to remain a virgin until he's 38?"

Hey! What's wrong with being a 38 yr. old virgin?! I have lots of fun in my parents basement, playing with toys and video games. Besides, girls are icky!

So very creepy!

Would anyone have this kind of reaction if he had spoken to his son in Spanish or French or Latin? His wife and the rest of his family still spoke English to the kid, and the kid did not have any trouble learning English, he just happened to learn Klingon as well. You say get a life, I say live and let live.

@Valendur. The point is why waste the time teaching your child Klingon when you can teach him Spanish, or French, Or Arabic, Or Mandarin Chinese.

Knowing how to speak Klingon is a useless skill. When you kids brain is its most spongy and able to learn why waste there time with something so trivial. Its really one of the biggest selfish acts I have heard about with your kid.

"I really like Star Trek so I am gonna teach my kid Klingon."

No one asked the kid if he wants to learn Klingon or if he cared. At least if you taught him Spanish he could use it in his everyday life.

In conclusion. Teaching you child Klingon is selfish and stupid and a waste of time.

photoguyryan - Go to school you Freaking Idiot! Is Minnesota a state? Yes its a rather historic state if you new anything. Sorry we dont meet up to that standards of your home state of DumbAsstonia! Again SyFy got there own little twist on this story he is not FROM Minnesota! And as horrible as it is to say Klingon is a language course in colleges across America INCLUDING A SUMMER LANGUAGE CAMP at STANFORD UNIVERSITY! Put the Pipe and the X-BOX away and go to School!!

Valendur, obviously no one would have a problem if it was Spanish or French, because those are languages used today. Mind you, it might have been best to teach the kid something like Chinese or Japanese, because those are insanely hard for Western people to learn as an adult.

I would, however, think Latin might be a bad idea as it's a dead language... but still more useful than Klingon.

All that being said, half the fun of spending a lot of time with toddlers is teaching them weird things to say... I've got my three year old nephew to say, Go Team Venture! But if I made him memorize the dialogue from all the episodes, that might be child abuse...

RE: By Valendur ....

"Would anyone have this kind of reaction if he had spoken to his son in Spanish or French or Latin? His wife and the rest of his family still spoke English to the kid, and the kid did not have any trouble learning English, he just happened to learn Klingon as well. You say get a life, I say live and let live."

-----Well, it`s obvious that you are not a parent.

Reality Check, Sparky: Spanish or French or Latin are different from Klingon: THEY ARE USEFUL IN THE REAL WORLD.
The Real World is where the kid has to live all his life-- NOT the Star Trek Universe.

This is almost as bad as those 'Balloon Boy' parents teaching their kids that it is okay to LIE for media attention.

As a parent, you have to consider WHAT IS BEST FOR THE CHILD--Not what would give you your jollies.

As another random aside about Sci Fi shows and toddlers... I've managed to say 'Frak!' around my nephews, instead of using real swear words.

Hopefully that won't get them in trouble in school if they pick it up from me...

As a parent of bilingual children, both under 5, who are also learning a third language and are exposed to a fourth, I must say that a lot of people are overreacting. Language learning is not exclusive. Young children can learn multiple languages at once, and they learn them FAST. The kids also learned English. The extra language, whatever it is, will help him learn other languages in the future, even if he never speaks it again and "forgets" it.

"I feel bad for the child. Spending a chunk of his childhood unable to follow TV. Socialize outside of his family. And what about learning to read? By the time school starts he'll be far behind the rest of his class."

Not really. The kids would easily pick up English through interaction with other people who did not speak Klingon. As noted by another poster the child did not ONLY learn Klingon.

Most kids don't start to learn how to read until age 4 anyway.

Kids that age don't really need to speak the language to follow TV. My daughters are perfectly happy watching TV in Cantonese, a language they do not speak.

Kids under 5 pick up a language in a few weeks. Seriously, apart from the geekiness I don't see what the big deal is.

"Knowing how to speak Klingon is a useless skill."

One could of course argue that a language like Spanish would be more useful. However as noted above learning multiple languages as a baby/toddler is not a hindrance, it is a help. It improves the ability to learn more languages later.

Starlionblue, yes, but if it's the ONLY language he's exposed to for three years THAT isolates him. He gets lost in the real world and can't communicte.

Klingon might not be much help in the real world, but at least the kid's brain gets to be exposed to multiple languages, which has been proven to boon when learning new languages in the future. It may be Klingon now, but when he decides to learn French and is able to master it within weeks, who will be scoring all the ladies then, huh?

Bloody Hell....

They may as well have taught him ESPERANTO.

My Cousin and his parents speak fluent Klingon.

...We do not visit them often.

VERY CREEPY..

Can that actually work? Last i knew Klingon wasn't a complete language. Like the word Ipod, everyone i spoke to says there is no word for that.

To all of you who say it's useless or stupid, lighten up! Sure it's crazy, but you never know what can come of an early education, even if it is Klingon. I bet if I taught my kids to say and understand Greedo's lines, there wouldn't be a list of comments saying "How stupid!" The problem is that Greedo speaks gibberish, and Klingon is an official language created by very intelligent people who could deconstruct language and add a layer of realism to a sci fi show. And you know, there are Klingon translators working in that field, because sometimes (albeit rarely) it is useful.

Sounds like the dad could use an extended stay in a nut house. The article also assumes, that the kid will live long enough from all the butt kickings he will take in school to become a goth.

Unless the kid can fight like a Klingon hes going to get his ass kicked in every school he goes to.

How about this for an experiment. Why not teach yourself a foreign language and see if you can talk to somebody opposed to teaching your kid something that is totally useless unless hes watching Star Trek movies.

@whocares: Ask the French how to speak the phrase "cloud computing" and get back to me. They don't have one that translates well because they don't want English in their French (You got chocolate in my peanut butter). Does that make French an incomplete language? Is Japanese an incomplete language because they have no sound for "th" or "lv"? Is English the only true complete language because we stole half of it from other places? :)

"No one asked the kid if he wants to learn Klingon or if he cared."

Yeah and no one asks the new borns if they want to be indoctrinated in a religion or be circumcised or many of the other things that parents do to thier kids and no one seems to be bothered by that ... but sure, learning an extra language even if it is a made up one and will most likely help the kid develop mentally and educationally ... yeah that's bad, we should put a stop to that.

I'm teaching my kid to speak Huttese!

:)

?

RE: By TakaComics....

" To all of you who say it's useless or stupid, lighten up! Sure it's crazy, but you never know what can come of an early education, even if it is Klingon. I bet if I taught my kids to say and understand Greedo's lines, there wouldn't be a list of comments saying "How stupid!" The problem is that Greedo speaks gibberish, and Klingon is an official language created by very intelligent people who could deconstruct language and add a layer of realism to a sci fi show. And you know, there are Klingon translators working in that field, because sometimes (albeit rarely) it is useful'

---That is the biggest load of sappy, self-serving CRAP that I have ever read on this board.

Anytime your argument consists of ' I`ll bet if ' s and ' you never know ' s to support it you cannot expect it to garner much respect.

By your ...' reasoning'....The Balloon Boy`s parents were merely teaching him to use his imagination by hoaxing and lying, and 'you never know' what can come of early stimulace to creativity.... right ?

Steve Martin had a comedy routine about screwing with a pre-school kid by teaching it to Talk Wrong, so that when the kid stood up in class to ask to use the restroom he would say " My I Mumbo Dogface to The Banana Patch?"...
The only difference between Martin`s sthick and this situation is that Martin was being Funny, and this is just SAD.

Linguistically, Klingonese was not a natural born language until the man taught it to his son. Being a man made, it had large areas of missing grammar and syntax. It would be absolutely fascinating to hear the words that the child created to repair the language so that it would be truly speakable. Children have been known to do this in other cases, such as the Pidgin spoken in Louisiana, a cross between several languages. The parents had created the language to better communicate with each other in trade, but the children truly made it a language by adding words and grammar and syntax to flesh it out that followed the form the parents had set up. The same also happens in children who are taught sign language. They are forced to make up their own rules for it.

Yaed'rae rha, only a varuul would teach a child Kll’ginhann. 'Rau evade my fellow Rihanha. Hann'yyo, jolan tru….ke'rhin ch'Havran

COOLEST DAD EVER! 8D I wish my first language was Klingon... or Vulcan

That's screwed up. Languages have evolved naturally over history, there's a reason why they are the way they are. This isn't healthy for the kid. It feels almost like lying, or at least misleading him. Like locking him in the basement and telling them that's the entire world.

Sounds awesome, stimulating his sons imagination. I bet the kid becomes a doctor. If only he paints his wife green.

It could be far worse...he could have been teaching his kid religion. My sister in law has her 3 year old reciting prayers and the kid has no idea what they man...now THATS teaching your child about mythological fantasies...

Sounds like child abuse to me.

Spanish would be much easier now that it is on billboards and all.

This is no worse than teaching your kids Latin, which is cool, but equally as useful as Klingon

bRobert, now THAT is ignorant.

Latin is still useful. It's the basis for almost all Western languages on OUR REAL planet. It's also still used in the medical commnity.

Ever wonder what 'Stat!' means when a doctor shouts it. It's short for Statim, Latin for Immediately.

Latin is still used in the real world, to claim it's as useless as Klingon is beyond ignorant.

Is it bad that this article gives me the overwhelming desire to learn Klingon? Guess I better hurry if I'm ever going to be able to teach my children.

ahem...what's wrong with remaining a virgin until your 38?

I can't believe how many people on here are soo full of themselves. I see nothing wrong with this. Just another thing to help with the child's development. Just another tool used.

You never know when Klingon will come in handy. I went to a sci-fi/computer convention in Munich. My German is almost nonexistant. but I was able to communicate with less effort with another attendee in Klingon than for me to try to understand his English or he my German.

It could have been worse, he could have taught the kid that there was a big bearded guy at the north pole that watches everything you do, judges you based on it, then invades your home and either gives you presents or leaves lumps of coal...

Those of you who think that the kid was harmed by this are reactionary morons. Those of you who think this makes the kid creepy, you're one of the xenophobic herd, go back to chewing grass you sheep. Glad that most of the rest of you see how this may not be the most effective language to teach a child, but at least it helps improve language skills.

C, C++ and Java are made up languages too. Am I a bastard for forcing my 7 y.o. child to learn programming languages? I may be dooming my daughter to a life of dorkiness and geekdom. Oh noes!

Heck all of mathematics is a made up language. Let's burn all the math books!

:sigh:

We need a better news story:

Reactionary Morons and the Media That Create Them

Am I the only one here who's shocked that there was actually a woman out there who was willing to mate with a guy who'd plan to teach his kids Klingon as their first language? And that this guy knew what to do with a woman?

You don't have to know how to speak Klingon to be a 38 year old virgin. Don't ask me how I know this. . .

Meh. Parents teach their kids all sorts of useless stuff, from patty-cake to throwing a ball for the dog. Kids enjoy it, and while the "game" itself is rarely useful there are fringe benefits.

Could he have spent his time with his child more beneficially? Probably, but the man's a parent sharing his passions, not a life-coach and drill instructor.

All that said of course, "He was definitely starting to learn it" suggests the whole process was rather cut short. Perhaps the wife wasn't to happy about it after all.

"...too happy about it after all", that should be.

Oh wow I am laughing at this. Let me clean the spittle of the keyboard for a second.

Ok, first off this guy spoke only Klingon to his child for the first three years of his life. According to the article, the linguist is quoted as saying the child was "starting to learn it".

Now, most children speak their first words around 8-12 months, and are speaking full sentences by the time they're two. That means a) after three full years the kid didn't really know what the heck daddy was saying, and b) even after the child had mastered his native language, dad was still speaking only Klingon.

What I'd like to take from this is not that this man is a complete tard who wasted three years, but rather that KIingon apparently takes more than three years to learn even when your brain is at its most receptive state for linguistic understanding. Naturally from this we can assume that Klingons spend a lot of time yelling and pointing emphatically in order to keep their kids in line.

To finish, I'd like to point out that this 'story' actually took place 15 years ago, with the experiment ending 12 years ago. Nice timeliness on the reporting Minnesota Daily!

there is only one thing more irritating than people that speak klingon fluently....Elvis impersonators!!!!!

RE: By Calamon ....

"You never know when Klingon will come in handy. I went to a sci-fi/computer convention in Munich........

Those of you who think that the kid was harmed by this are reactionary morons. Those of you who think this makes the kid creepy, you're one of the xenophobic herd...."

----Well, be that as it may Sparky, at least our idea of fun is not limited to a "sci-fi/computer convention in Munich".

You lost whatever credibility you might have had by starting with that admission.
Cons by their very nature are an escape from Reality, not a participation in it.
One bizarre instance at a convention of rabid Euro-Geeks does not a valid argument make.

Oh--By the way--Children tend to outgrow Santa Claus as they mature, but keep the Spirit of Giving that the fable personifies....Hardly the same as teaching a child to speak a fictional language in a Real World....Unless of course, he`s going to a "sci-fi/computer convention in Munich" someday, I suppose.

@Calamon
Imagine how much more useful it would have been if you'd learned German instead. You would then have been able to communicate with people OUTSIDE the convention too.

Get a life Loser! Don't ruin your kids while you suck a yours! Holy frak its just a TV show!

The guy is a moron. Really, an experiement in linguistics?

Doesn't take common sense to know if I spoke to my daughter in Korean for her first three years, she'd be speaking Korean right now instead of English.

*hands d'Armond Speers the Idiot of the Month award*

You know who I'd like to hear from?

This kid. He's what, 15 now? It would be interesting to hear from him how having gone through this has affected his life, if at all, until this story was published.

Experiment in multilingual communication skills or not, teaching a kid a completely fictional and useless language like Klingon instead of something productive like Spanish, French or Italian (or whatever), is just plain dumb. And also simply wrong in my personal opinion... I see no legitimate logical or scientific defense of it.

The only klingon phrase he will need to say is,"They kicked my ass at school again,thanks dad!".

The synopsis of this article is really too limited for me to give my full opinion and is reminiscent of media today in which they’ll take one small fact and blow it out of proportion to sensationalize a story. I’d really like to see a linguist’s point of view regarding this. My own limited knowledge of linguistics is that in any culture, a language is the first thing studied in order to learn more about said culture. While the klingon language is clearly not a commonly spoken language in the world, did the professor hope to include his son into his small community by teaching him the klingon language? All communities seem to acquire their own slang words and commonly used phrases in order to form a more cohesive community (such as the online community’s terminology). Did the mother also speak klingon to the child or was she using English in an effort to make the child bilingual? (I have a close friend that only speaks Spanish to her children while the father only speaks English in order to facilitate their children being bilingual.) While I can see that learning a limited language could also limit the child’s awareness of the world, I also argue that learning multiple languages would be a benefit to the child and enable the child to learn additional languages easier than those individuals possessing one language.

P.S. Scifiwire, you guys need to take a look at your Captcha - it needs a bit of work.

If anyone bothered to read the original story, near the bottom it says

"As for Speers, who still gets nostalgic when he recalls singing the Klingon lullaby “May the Empire Endure” with his son at bedtime, the experiment was a dud. His son is now in high school and doesn’t speak a word of Klingon."

Is what this guy did really all that different from what B. F. Skinner did with his kid and the Air Crib?

That is so wrong to do to your kid! I feel sorry for the kid!

People should remember a few things.

1. Klingon was NOT the only language spoken to him. He learned English as well, so he had no trouble at all relating to anyone else. He might have thought his dad was very strange compared to everyone else, but that's it.

2. the kid has thus far grown up perfectly normal, so obviously it didn't do him any harm.

3. As others have pointed out, hearing a second, or third, or fourth language in your fist three years does not necessarily mean you will be able to speak it, but it WILL make it easier to learn foreign languages later. This does NOT matter if the language is "artificial" or a more normal language. It only matters that they are hearing sounds not heard in the regular language they are speaking.

4. Speaking Klingon is really no different than all the nonsense sounds people make around babies, except that the baby can actually learn to associate real objects with the Klingon words as opposed to "oogy woogy sweetums" and all the other silly things people say to babies (My wonderful linguist wife and I never said silly things like that to our kids, instead talking to them in a variety of languages like they were rational people. At least partially as a result, both of my kids are far more verbal than other kids their age, although I am sure reading to them every day has helped).

5. Every language is artifical and made-up, some just more so than others. Artificial languages such as Klingon, Esperanto, or Elvish for that matter are actually easier and make more sense because they are designed from the beginning according to actual linguistic rules as compared to the "natural" languages which are all full of contradictions and combinations and exceptions due to their evolving over time and absorbing bits and pieces from other languages to form a rather messed up, jumbled mishmash of sounds.

6. Yes, this is indeed very different than Skinner, who was a nutcase that permanently damaged his kid's upbringing. Speers enriched his kid's environment rather than severely restricting it.

Folks are still learning (like in medical training) Latin and that language has not formally been spoken regularly in hunderds of years. There are also limited languages (Mayan, Egyptian, and Cherokee as examples) that are not spoken, but still are being used in reference all of the time.
The fact that there are folks speaking Klingon makes it a viable language.
Now teaching a child to speak any "non or dead" language that has reference to learning is not a bad thing.
That said - experimenting on childern to "just see" if they can is just plain wrong at that age.
There are more positive ways of influencing or teaching childern to live sucessfully / happily in this world then teaching Klingon.
How about just teaching them right from wrong?

What so may here are not grasping is that the point in question is not whether ir not this clown`s little " linguistics experiment " succeeded or failed, or even if it actually harmed the kid in any way.
That is not the point.

When you are a parent, you are responsible for the physical , emotional, and intellectual well-being of your child as it develops to the point where it can make it`s own way in life.

To that effect, you have to be careful what you do, what you teach, and when you teach it. There is a philosophy that The Teacher Must Protect the Student From Their Own Influence.That means being careful what you show them and when. I taught my son how to safely handle a gun-- but I did not do it when he was 3 years old.

You do not treat A Mind as an experiment.
A child`s psyche is not there for you to play with

I`m not terribly impressed with a parent who plays around with a child`s development as a screwy 'experiment'. It shows a certain cavalier attitude towards responsible parenting.

When the whole 'Balloon Boy" thing happened, people were stirred up over the possibility that these parents had actually allowed their child to wander into a balloon and be launched off, possibly to his death....Then, when it was found to be a hoax, a different form of concern sprang up-- Concern over what sort of lessons these parents are teaching their kids; that it is okay to LIE if it gets attention.
Anyone want to argue that this is NOT poor parenting?
Well, teaching a child a sci-fi-BS babble-language just as an experiment is not what I would call 'nurturing'. To those who say 'lighten up', I would ask if you would want someone treating YOUR kid like a Lab Rat.

That is the point of objection for me.

Paladin: I completely agree with you all the way up to your conclusion.
It is wrong to treat your kids as lab rats. But really, parenting is by its nature experimental. No one ever knows if what they are doing is going to be right or not, you just do the best you can.
Doing experiments that you think have a chance of hurting the child's development is wrong. But this is not one of those instances. This experiment did not harm to the kid, nor was any intended or conceived. At worst, the effect would have been none, at best it would have served as enrichment.

If only every choice we make as parents could be so good. I make choices for my kids every day that if I choose wrong could potentially be harmful to my kids. That's my job as a parent. But since I can't see into the future, I make the best choices I can and accept the consequences. Not all of them work out right. But that is life.

Experimenting on children is not a black/white decision. Pretty much nothing ever is. You don't do experiments that might hurt. You do experiments you think might help or at least won't cause harm. Since every child is different, you have to do this. Anyone who says all kids should be treated the same knows nothing about kids. Experimenting is the only way to learn about what works best for your kid.

The difference here is that this experiment was not designed to help his son, but for the curiosity of the parent. I grant that. But do you seriously think he would have done it or his wife would have let him if they thought there was any possibility it would cause any problems (assuming he is not completely insane, which it doesn't sound like to me)? Note he stopped when he was three and he did NOT stop anyone else from talking to him in english. That says they did consider the possible ramifications and made sure the kid was not hindered in any way. Can most people say that about the decisions they make for their kids? Considering most people don't even think about parenting, they just muddle their way through, I think not.

Between this nut and the father of "balloon boy 'It's obvious that the countries child protection service is full of incompetent foolsand not capable of doing their jobs!

Between this nut and the father of "balloon boy 'It's obvious that the countries child protection service is full of incompetent foolsand not capable of doing their jobs!

RE: By jdmimic ..... .
"...It is wrong to treat your kids as lab rats. But really, parenting is by its nature experimental. No one ever knows if what they are doing is going to be right or not, you just do the best you can.
Doing experiments that you think have a chance of hurting the child's development is wrong. But this is not one of those instances. This experiment did not harm to the kid, nor was any intended or conceived. At worst, the effect would have been none, at best it would have served as enrichment"

----- The 'enrichment' angle is questionable at best, and an unsupportable supposition on your part.
Further, the father could have had no way of KNOWING beforehand that his little 'experiment' would have no deleterious effect.

Parenting by it`s nature is an experiment--but by that same token it is one that has to be carried out CAREFULLY, not with a cavalier attitude.

Teaching a baby KLINGON was in no way valuable, let alone practical.

What would a command of KLINGON have gotten the kid if he had 'taken' to it ?? ...NOTHING.

If he had spoken nothing but common vulgar profanity, at least the kid could have been prepared for life as a New Yorker.

If you are objecting that this person taught his child a "useless" additional language, while you have taught your child NO additional languages, then you are a gigantic idiot.

If you are objecting to this person "experimenting" on his child, and you have ever sat your child in front of "Baby Einstein" or bought a Leapfrog toy, you are a gigantic hypocrite.

Honestly, there is a huge amount of research on childhood language acquisition and at the very worst this was a waste of time. It simply CANNOT harm the child as long as an actual language input is available, and YES this is well established.

I would argue that whatever the cognitive or linguistic benefits, if any, this man did spend a lot of time interacting with his child, and that has proven benefits all by itself, so if you're objecting to this and you had your toddler spending lots of time in day care then you can shut up, get off the computer, and go spend time with your kids.

RE; By Actual Linguist ....
If you are objecting that this person taught his child a "useless" additional language, while you have taught your child NO additional languages, then you are a gigantic idiot.

If you are objecting to this person "experimenting" on his child, and you have ever sat your child in front of "Baby Einstein" or bought a Leapfrog toy, you are a gigantic hypocrite.

.... this man did spend a lot of time interacting with his child, and that has proven benefits all by itself, so if you're objecting to this and you had your toddler spending lots of time in day care then you can shut up, get off the computer, and go spend time with your kids"

---Sparky, Sparky, SPARKY....

'Actual Linguist' you may be, but intelligent poster you are NOT.

I note a tendency to rely upon the word ' IF' in your post that obviates whatever excuse for an actual point that you were attempting to make.

Further, you seem to have a sad need to evoke fantasy SUPPOSITION as a means to prop up your insults.

Gee...It`s sad that in order to insult others, you have to imagine and suppose....
But to make you look The Fool, all I have to do is quote you.

Be a bit more careful in your future posts.

"Be a bit more careful in your future posts."

Ooooh, sounds scary. What are you going to do if he doesn't?? Jump through the monitor? Continue to sound like a know it all that bashes other people's views, but gets a bit offended when someone else has the tenacity to voice an opinion contrary to your own? Get over yourself.

RE: By lmnop .....

"Be a bit more careful in your future posts."

Ooooh, sounds scary. What are you going to do if he doesn't?? Jump through the monitor? Continue to sound like a know it all that bashes other people's views, but gets a bit offended when someone else has the tenacity to voice an opinion contrary to your own? Get over yourself. "

---Oh, my...a cliche` comeback..
.How ever shall I survive it ??

Actually, my admonishment towards him was to HIS benefit, in the (albiet extreme) hope that he might come off as a little more intelligent than that puerile ( and repetitive) "You`re a gigantic idiot" CRAP.

Not that I expect you to grasp the concept, given the low intelligence level of your own post.

By the way.....

Just as you purport to defend others` right to an opinion, so too am I am entitled to my opinion, and likewise am under no obligation to agree with opposing opinions that have NO SUBSTANCE.

Any time a P.O.V. is based upon ' IF' or 'YOU NEVER KNOW' or any other variation of MAYBE then it should not come as a surprise that it gets questioned or dismissed.

If you don`t like it--TOO BAD !

I`m not posting here to please you.

@PALADIN

"-----Well, it`s obvious that you are not a parent.

Reality Check, Sparky: Spanish or French or Latin are different from Klingon: THEY ARE USEFUL IN THE REAL WORLD.
The Real World is where the kid has to live all his life-- NOT the Star Trek Universe.

This is almost as bad as those 'Balloon Boy' parents teaching their kids that it is okay to LIE for media attention."

--

Please do not generalize so broadly on parental views. Your word choice implies that all rational parents agree with you, and that is clearly not the case.

I understand your "think of the children" overview, but I disagree that everything in a child's life must be completely practical. I also disagree with your restrictive view of responsible parenting that seems to preclude non-traditional topics. If a parent believes that teaching a particular skill will impart an advantage to their child (however minor), it would instead be irresponsible not to do so.

We also disagree on the relative importance of some core values like pragmatism and honesty. In my view, teaching a child an impractical thought puzzle is not remotely comparable to teaching a child to lie for attention.

That said, thanks for providing some actual coherent thoughts on your side of the discussion.

RE: By GotTimeToKill ....

Please do not generalize so broadly on parental views. Your word choice implies that all rational parents agree with you, and that is clearly not the case.

I understand your "think of the children" overview, but I disagree that everything in a child's life must be completely practical. I also disagree with your restrictive view of responsible parenting that seems to preclude non-traditional topics. If a parent believes that teaching a particular skill will impart an advantage to their child (however minor), it would instead be irresponsible not to do so.

We also disagree on the relative importance of some core values like pragmatism and honesty. In my view, teaching a child an impractical thought puzzle is not remotely comparable to teaching a child to lie for attention."

---- However; teaching a child to speak a nonsensical fantasy language as if it had some validity in Reality is in effect LYING to the child.
Had this parent sought to give his child a grounding in a second language, as many parents do, then the time would have been well-spent.
No matter how hard you may try, you cannot pass Klingon off as a ligititmate language, because ultimately; There Are No Klingons To Speak It. There Never Were.
This brings into question the entire point of this so-called 'linguistics experiment'...
Was this man truly surprised that his kid began to 'learn' Klingon--when that was all he spoke to him with ?
Children begin to learn to speak through thier attempts to copy their parents` speech patterns. This is BASIC. It does not require reaffirmation through experimentation.

If then, you discard an actual scientific value in this situation, you are left with the unsettling alternative of a parent merely having 'fun' by starting his child off on an linguistical Dead End.
The argument that speaking Klingon could be useful as either a cognitive learning tool or merely as an enjoyable venue for spending time with the child is obviated by the simple fact that the man could have spent that time actually benefitting his son with something remotely useful.
Further, parenting is not merely about spending time with the child--an abusive parent 'spends time' with their battered offspring-- the value lies in spending QUALITY TIME.

As for my "restrictive view of responsible parenting that seems to preclude non-traditional topics. If a parent believes that teaching a particular skill will impart an advantage to their child (however minor), it would instead be irresponsible not to do so."....
I taught my son martial arts and philosphy. I taught him how to shoot, throw knives and use a Bo Staff and Nunchaku... ( 'non restictive' enough for you ? ) But y`know... I did not teach him those things until he was mature enough to handle them. Likewise, I taught him the difference between Fantasy and painful Reality The first lesson that I taught him with Guns was that " All The 'I`m Sorry`s In The World Will Not Make Up For One Stupid Mistake With A Gun".

Which makes better sense.... Starting a child off on perhaps a second language from the family heritage or that the child may very well encounter during it`s lifetime ( such as Spanish if you are keeping up with the linguistic evolution in America ) ...
Or RESTRICTING the child`s learning development to a nonsensical fantasy language ? ( and yes, READ THE ARTICLE he did restrict his child`s learning development for three years)

Now....Who is the RESTRICTIVE Parent here that you have a problem with ?

Incidentally, I defy you to point to one instance wherein I stated that " everything in a child's life must be completely practical."

Bloody Hell.. I am into Sci-Fi... Does it seem likely that I would make or endorse such a statement ?
That was purely a fantasy of your own making.

Like some others I have taken issue with; you seem to be skimming my posts and then reading into them what you would like to be there so you can then complain about it.

As for our disagreeing about " the relative importance of some core values like pragmatism and honesty. In my view, teaching a child an impractical thought puzzle is not remotely comparable to teaching a child to lie for attention."

....You are just not grasping it are you?

This child is now 15 and reading about his father--supposedly one of the two people that he can always trust in this life-- spending the first three years of his young mind`s cognitive development INTENTIONALLY LYING TO HIM. Constantly, Consistently and Repetitively LYING TO HIM.
"Hey son guess what? Just for fun--since you could not possibly have gained by it--I made sure that you heard nothing but a bogus fantasy language for the first three years of your life..Isn`t that great ? It was such a hoot !"

Being 15, the kid like as not has no problem with it--for now. Later on, he may think differently, however. Much of the root cause for cases of Elder Abuse stem from childhood traumas ...such as finding out that your parent treated you like a Lab Rat.

@Actual Linguist: Thanks for your response. :)

"Honestly, there is a huge amount of research on childhood language acquisition and at the very worst this was a waste of time. It simply CANNOT harm the child as long as an actual language input is available, and YES this is well established."

My thoughts were somewhere along this line of reasoning.

"I would argue that whatever the cognitive or linguistic benefits, if any, this man did spend a lot of time interacting with his child, and that has proven benefits all by itself, so if you're objecting to this and you had your toddler spending lots of time in day care then you can shut up, get off the computer, and go spend time with your kids."

Amen! My husband and I decided early on that I would stay at home with our children while they were young vs working for this very reason. I know it's not feasible for all people to live on a single income and I understand it's really a personal choice, but looking back I'm certainly glad we made that decision.

i think teaching the kid sindarin (tolkien's elvish) would
have made more sense.

Klingon is difficult, but Esperanto is worldwide. And easy, of course :)

As in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2LPVcsL2k0

Paladin, Klingon is not a "bogus fantasy language". It's a constructed language, but it's as real as languages get. People do speak it, intelligibly, in actual real-life conversations. It has an ISO 639-2 language code (see http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php and "tlh").

In a movie about the the Klingon Language Institute, the young Speers boy expresses regret that he doesn't speak Klingon today. But it's easy to understand a child rejecting a minority language in the home when the only person speaking it to him obviously understands English as well.

RE: By Anoynmous ....
" Paladin, Klingon is not a "bogus fantasy language". It's a constructed language, but it's as real as languages get. "

HA !...That`s nice....But No Sale !

Klingon is a fantasy construct created to serve the needs of an entertainment concept.

It is effectively A LINGUISTIC ' PROP ' .

That a handful of people with waaay too much free time on their hands chose to HAVE FUN by enlarging upon that fantasy construct does not make it a valid language.

You may as well argue that the fantasy realm 'kingdom' that the SCA people use in their role-playing is a real country because they are so attentive to their role-playing.

Finally; "The Official Klingon Dictionary" is COPYRIGHT OWNED BY PARAMOUNT PICTURES.

Sorry Sparky, but ' real ' languages are not owned by movie companies.

RE: PALADIN

The copyright is on the book itself, rather than the Klingon language, although the word 'Klingon' is a trademark, I believe.

I don't think you can actually copyright a language.

Personally, I actually find this whole thing a bit silly. =P

RE: "RE: PALADIN

The copyright is on the book itself, rather than the Klingon language, although the word 'Klingon' is a trademark, I believe.

I don't think you can actually copyright a language. "

--- That is my point, precisely.

You cannot copyright the contents of a Dictionary, because a valid language cannot be 'owned' by anyone.

Ergo, whereas a name can be trademarked under the terms of copyright or patent, IF the so-called 'Klingon Language' were a genuine, recognized form of communication, then it would NOT, indeed, COULD NOT under law be trademarked by Paramount Pictures, Corp.

But it is.

Incidentally, you are confusing the copyright with the publishing rights. For example; anyone can publish a French Dictionary, but not everyone can publish 'The Simon & Shuster Edition'.

"The Official Klingon Dictionary" , however is published by Simon & Shuster, but owned by Paramount Pictures Corp..... Who also OWN any and all useage of KLINGON(s) and any other aspect and or offshoot of STAR TREK.

.... I`ll state again...
NO REAL LANGUAGE IS OWNED BY A MOVIE COMPANY.

Rebellion spoiler: this kid will grow up to be a jock who regularly administers swirlies, titty twisters, &c. to the nerds he encounters.

Everyones missing the point. Its the circle of life. Geeks must spawn more geeks for jocks and the rest to beat and pound on. Tis the circle of life.

Its the circle....the circle of life!!! *african drum beat*

I feel sorry for all of the people whose comments show they that they obviously haven't understood the article or the extra information in some of the early comments.

Maybe if their parents had taught them Klingon, they might be able to understand English a bit better.

@kinski "Get a life Loser! Don't ruin your kids while you suck a yours! Holy *frak* its just a TV show!"
(stars added for emphasis)

This made me laugh more than all the narrow minded comments in this whole thread. Well done, kinski!

@PALADIN
Have you ever studied a language? I have a PhD in Linguistics and every single book I have ever studied or used to teach language has been copyright of some publisher or another.

Additionally, Paramount does not 'own' Klingon, they simply own the original documents used to create the groundwork for Klingon. Klingon has evolved far beyond the scope of its original creator to become a living language. Simply because it is not spoken by a large population and not published by many sources does not change the fact that it IS in fact spoken and it meets all criteria accepted by the academic world to qualify as a 'real' language.

I really don't care what the dad did. It was his choice to do what he did, not mine.

Not my business.

Personally, imho I think it's great to expose a child/person to as much as one can. Languages, ideals, philosophies, and ethics are culturally stimulating and if we do indeed live in an evolved 21st society then the more a person knows, the better. What about all the slang languages? Pig Latin, Op Language, Jive, and Klingon are all made up languages. It is not a problem if a parent teaches their child one of these languages. It's not like the parent was teaching the child it was ok to call African Americans the N word, or Asians the C word, or Hispanics the WB word. There is nothing wrong with what he did.

I glad he did it too because I am tired of how many people think they can tell someone else how to raise their child. There is nothing destructive about this, behaviorally or socially. There are a lot worse things a parent does to their child, like mental, emotional or physical abuse.

Open your mind and stop being such harsh judges.