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Scientist says dolphins should get human status
In Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, dolphins leave the Earth shortly before it is destroyed by the Vogons, leaving a last message: So long and thanks for all the fish.
We're not sure what this has to do with the following, but we're sure it relates: A zoologist at Emory University is arguing that dolphins in the real world should be given human status.
Here's how TG Daily reported it:
Lori Marino used MRI scans to compare dolphin brains with those of primates, and concluded that they are more intelligent than chimpanzees.Corrected for body size, dolphins have larger brains than any primates except man, and the same surface folds found in human brains. They also have a cerebral cortex and neocortex that approach the size of those found in humans.
Marino's argument is bolstered by the fact that dolphins can recognize themselves in mirrors, can learn a simple language, have personalities and can cooperate and learn from each other.
Which raises the question: Why would dolphins want to have their status lowered to that of humankind?
What do you think of this suggestion?
By dabitsu at 3:12 PM ON 01/04/10
flipper for president
By Justo at 3:15 PM ON 01/04/10
I hate this kinda crap. Yeah, dolphins are smart compared to other wild animals. Great, good for them. But they are still wild animals. And don't give me that crap about how they don't start wars and aren't cruel or all that hippie bs. If you believe that then go live with dolphins.
By Carpe at 3:17 PM ON 01/04/10
So long, and thanks for all the fish
So sad that it should come to this
We tried to warn you all, but, oh, dear
You may not share out intellect
Which might explain your disrespect
For all the natural wonders that grow around you
So long, so long, and thanks for all the fish!
The world's about to be destroyed
There's no point getting all annoyed
Lie back and let the planet dissolve around you
Despite those nets of tuna fleets
We thought that most of you were sweet
Especially tiny tots and your pregnant women
So long, so long, so long, so long, so long!
So long, so long, so long, so long, so long!
So long, so long, and thanks for all the fish!
If I had just one last wish
I would like a tasty fish!
If we could just change one thing
We would all have learnt to sing!
Come one and all
Man and mammal
Side by side
In life's great gene pool!
So long, so long, so long, so long, so long
So long, so long, so long, so long
So long, so long and thanks for all the fish!
By mlprice at 3:27 PM ON 01/04/10
This is utterly stupid. I see the march of the kooks that started when the White House changed hands continues. Brain size isn't a major factor in intelligence. Density of neural pathways and the sizes of certain regions are a more qualitative measurement. Then again dolphins have been observed murdering, raping, killing their young, reading books, and programming computers.... just kidding about those last 2.
By Kermonk at 3:31 PM ON 01/04/10
I think if a dolphin spokesperson writes a letter asking for it, we should consider it.
By Omen at 3:33 PM ON 01/04/10
If that happens doesn't that also mean they get the vote?
Think how many politicians would get thrown out of office?
Afterall living in the sea with your life on the line means you don't tolerate idiots.
Yes!
Make them human!
By KnockSenseUpside at 3:37 PM ON 01/04/10
There are some humans that don't deserve the "human" status so why bandy this classification to a species too smart to indulge in partisanship BS like mlprice above.
By Xalseqsn at 3:37 PM ON 01/04/10
Look, if you don't believe in "Souls" then Dolphins are PEOPLE, even if not human. They talk, they sing, they dance, they enjoy watching themselves have sex in mirrors.
So, stop believing in the tooth fairy and realize we're not "special". There is no reason to subjugate other thinking beings.
By Pennarin at 3:56 PM ON 01/04/10
I'm all for these wonderful sea mammals being protected by the Bill of Rights, as long as gay dolphins are safely imprisonned or hunted down like the fish they are.
By hermy at 3:57 PM ON 01/04/10
where are the Dolphin hospitals?if there so smart?why do they get cot in tuna nets? wether your a athiest or a person of faith.know matter how smart other animals mite be.there is still that somthing that puts us above them.
By Daniel at 3:59 PM ON 01/04/10
When dolphins get opposable thumbs, come back and we'll discuss this subject again.
By Angelastic at 4:06 PM ON 01/04/10
Well they certainly shouldn't be locked up in little pools with no sex or live fish, where they commit suicide after a couple of years.
By Reaper2K at 4:16 PM ON 01/04/10
I'm sure that when dolphins get around to figuring out our primitive language, they will consider giving us equal rights -- or keeping us as pets. I also imagine they will have better spelling and grammar than those who have posted here.
By HD at 4:18 PM ON 01/04/10
At all the stupid comments above that state that brain size is not synonymous of intelligence. I agree 100%. Ours is the largest brain and look at how stupid the human race is, by destroying everything it touches, by discriminating against other human beings, and on and on.
Give me a break. Yes, I would love to live among Dolphins and not have to deal with the likes of any of you at any day.
By mlbkrb at 4:26 PM ON 01/04/10
you know what, we are above all animals on this planet. But here is the problem, the human race is the only race that does not have balance with its environment and others creatures. The rest of the planets creatures have learned the balance for the most part. The human race as a whole takes no account for the destruction of habitat of others as long as we can get something in return. It all goes back to greed. Look at all the worlds problems and think for a moment, greed is the root problem.
By asfm at 4:31 PM ON 01/04/10
This needs more research. Decades more. I'm inclined to believe this (and already thought it before reading this), having witnessed some amazing dolphins, but it needs more research. Much more.
The scientist guy slipped up saying they deserve 'human status', though. Not because I disagree, but because idiots clearly don't understand what that represents, as evidenced by many of the replies to this article.
He should have just said sapience. The riffraff would be too busy checking dictionary.com to squirt their digital diarrhoea.
By Troydothanalum at 4:50 PM ON 01/04/10
This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
By Seanbtwo at 4:58 PM ON 01/04/10
Next thing you know someone is going to be trying to give those filthy blue primitives on Pandora equal rights!
By robeuax at 5:01 PM ON 01/04/10
My life partner is a dolphin and like she always says, eeh,eeh,e,e,e,e,e,e!!!
By M at 5:14 PM ON 01/04/10
The humans must be exterminated
By JB at 5:16 PM ON 01/04/10
They're probably smarter than us....judging from some comments on here.
By MUADIB at 5:47 PM ON 01/04/10
Do whales create art for the sake of art?No. Do whales create music (and not simply for communication) for the sake of enjoyment?NO.Do they ponder the universe to better understand their part in it ?NO.Do they work to better themselves and advance?NOThen dolphins cannot be considerd HOMOSAPIAN SAPIANS at all.The word "human" has a specific definition and dolphins do not fit this at all.
By JohnnyBoy at 5:47 PM ON 01/04/10
Of course intelligence isn't dependent on brain size. I mean, look at George Dubya, I'm betting the brain inside that head is pretty much the same size as everyone else, but there sure ain't a helluva lot going on up in there. I'm just sayin'... I'm with the fella who said "Flipper for president", he'd probably do a better job than most everyone else, mostly coz' he wouldn't want the job.
By umbran at 6:03 PM ON 01/04/10
"Human status" is not a well-defined term.
Should we be considering a "sentient being" status, which humans would generally have and to which we can add dolphins and others who met the criteria, such that their treatment can be reasonably controlled? Perhaps.
But "human status"is ambiguous and emotionally loaded.
By someone at 6:06 PM ON 01/04/10
While some comments on brain size not being the be all end all in determining intelligence are correct (at least according to my anthro profs) I think that a lot more research needs to be done. If dolphins are intelligent as humans, than we definitely need to be treating them better, and stop eating them and training them to do tricks.
By agsb at 6:09 PM ON 01/04/10
The Dolphin is a fish, porpoise is a mamal, flipper for president and running on a platform to put the USA under water!
By BLUE247 at 6:19 PM ON 01/04/10
Can we check if dolphins have better grammar and spelling skills, because some of the people commenting on here sure don't.
By Sharr at 6:26 PM ON 01/04/10
Err no, I see the animals are pure - humans suck movement is alive and well in academia. Spare us rule by the "intellectual". So far our current "Genius and Chief" has only proven he knows how to bow to and make us appear weak. I'll believe he's smart when he gives up his "ums and ahs" and teleprompter after opening his collage transcripts to back up this myth of being the smartest guy in the room pushed by the Left/media (same thing don't you know.)
And no dolphins don't make music art or literature so they should not be considered people.
By nilus at 6:36 PM ON 01/04/10
If they are declared human would that make me a cannibal. Because Dolphin is goooooood eating hmmm num num!
By Babylaniac at 7:02 PM ON 01/04/10
Dolphins can have rights when they pick up a rifle and EARN them the way generations of our soldiers sailors and airmen have.
By NotsoSyFy at 7:21 PM ON 01/04/10
Please Watch the Documentary
"THE COVE" about dolphins and their struggle to survive in our world since FLIPPER first aired.
By Boomer at 7:26 PM ON 01/04/10
Don't see why we should...
They'll all be dead in a couple decades.
Well, maybe not all. But every freshwater dolphin will be gone. Oh well.
If the world did end, for humans, I think we might deserve it.
Just saying.
By divephotog at 8:00 PM ON 01/04/10
Having worked with the dolphins at the Dolphin Research Center in Marathon, FL, I would agree. They have intelligence and emotions far superior to that of any other animal we might consider as a pet or stock species, and very social as well.
One would not be hesitant to do allow such status had they been around these great beings (really ought to include whales as well), and it would give better leverage to their protection in the seas, as that is lacking real enforcement and proper treatment. -kh
By MetalPause at 9:30 PM ON 01/04/10
Thanks for posting that, Carpe!!!!
By thunderstud at 9:30 PM ON 01/04/10
I love how an article about dolphin intelligence gets spun into something about Obama and/or the White House.
By Journeyman at 10:04 PM ON 01/04/10
@Babylaniac
Dolphins have been trained to support our military in numerous ways from what I understand.
And since we are discussing this in terms of sci-fi, this topic reminds me of the "Uplift" series of novels by David Brin.
By Wayne at 10:26 PM ON 01/04/10
Shyeah, right, dolphins should be granted human status. When monkeys fly out of my butt....
By Snorky at 10:33 PM ON 01/04/10
Eons ago, when our fore fathers first ventured out of the water our two species were united in mutual peace. Ever since the one called Homer yelled the phrase "We've wiped out entire species before: we can do it again!" We have been at war!
Now, we read this. Let this be your last battle field! Never again allow your petty bi-pedal wars to infringe upon the seven seas. For my kind will not save another sailor until monkeys fly out of the one called Wayne's butt......
By Elliot at 10:48 PM ON 01/04/10
It's a official. The majority of commenters at Scifi Wire are thoughtless and closed minded.
For people who supposedly like sci-fi, many of you just don't get sci-fi at its core is supposed to be about opening one's mind to new possibilities. What does it mean to be human or sentient?
When someone says something so stupid about people earning their rights by way of a gun, they have absolutely no understanding of the U.S. Constitution. The rights Americans have are natural rights. We fight wars not to gain rights but to preserve them. Oppressed minorities have struggled to have their rights recognized.
The question of whether dolphins should be recognized as human is classically science fiction. An alien lands on Earth. Are humans smart enough to recognize that it is intelligent or are they too arrogant to discern that the other is not so different?
By kivel99 at 10:55 PM ON 01/04/10
The difference is that when dolphins start wars, they don't do it on porpoise!
By allofthemonkeys at 11:11 PM ON 01/04/10
Am I the only one who noticed that the guy's name was Marino and he is Pro Dolphin?
By TearEmUp at 11:14 PM ON 01/04/10
@Elliot, it depends. Are the aliens trying to blow us up? Or, are the aliens trying to eat our livers with some fava beans and a nice chianti? These are important factors when trying to decide if we like these aliens or not. The odds of them being benevolent are not in our favor.
By smallville at 11:37 PM ON 01/04/10
Can dolphins be taught to fly a shuttle?
By robeuax at 11:52 PM ON 01/04/10
Nice blow hole
By Matt at 1:09 AM ON 01/05/10
Is this a legal status? Can they be charged with murder when they brutally kill harbor porpoises?
By theJW at 1:53 AM ON 01/05/10
Wow... they totally missed the perfect story to bring up SeaQuest DSV. Jonathan Brandis was so dreamy...
My company is looking to outsource our Java coding to either the Philippines or the Gulf of Mexico. Right now, we're leaning towards the Philippines because of their WPM. Nothing against those in the Gulf, but typing is tough with flippers, and Dragon Naturally Speaking isn't--erm--natural enough yet.
By divephotog at 2:23 AM ON 01/05/10
@ asgb - Dolphins are mammalian. Do not confuse the Mahi-Mahi, nicknamed Dolphin, with the one who likes to eat the Mahi-Mahi, Snook, and other tasty fish.
@Hermy, there is a Dolphin hospital in the Keys, at the Dolphin Research Center, and they also do other sealife as well.
They do press switches, count, identify shapes and colors, and who knows, someday soon we may figure out their clicks and whistles ( as they do a triple backwards flip and sing the Star Spangled Banner, trying to warn us about something!) -kh
By Daumier at 2:37 AM ON 01/05/10
Meanwhile, in Dolphin Word, a lone Dolphin argues that humans are intelligent enough to be granted Dolphin status. His fellow Dolphins laugh.
By milles316 at 9:05 AM ON 01/05/10
If the Dolphins had the ability to leave the Earth in Hitchhikers Guide; than does that mean they screwed us when they could have appealed the construction of the Bypass.
By Nada Nuff at 9:50 AM ON 01/05/10
"Look, if you don't believe in "Souls" then Dolphins are PEOPLE, even if not human. They talk, they sing, they dance, they enjoy watching themselves have sex in mirrors. "
Dolphins are not people, they are creatures. Less intelligent creatures. They don't (and never will) deserve to be referred to as "people".
"So, stop believing in the tooth fairy and realize we're not "special". There is no reason to subjugate other thinking beings."
Yes, we are special. Show me one other species that can type, read, build complex machinery. Why are you so insistent on degrading humans?
It's articles exactly like this that prove that some scientists can't be taken seriously. Yet some weak-minded sheep will read it and use it to validate a point, simply because "a scientist" scribbled down some random nonsense.
By jdmimic at 9:53 AM ON 01/05/10
"Do whales create art for the sake of art?No. Do whales create music (and not simply for communication) for the sake of enjoyment?NO.Do they ponder the universe to better understand their part in it ?NO.Do they work to better themselves and advance?NO"
Muaddib, how could you possibly know? Do you know how to speak dolphin? Have you asked them? There are quite a few researchers who do think whales and dolphins make music and play simply for the sake of enjoyment. Dolphins certainly play jokes and pranks on people, I witnessed that myself.
Considering that most humans could be said to not work to improve themselves, I don't see this as a valid requirement.
Not going to take sides here, but I would ask people to consider, dolphins can be taught to understand our language, yet we can't understand theirs. So who then is smarter?
Blacks at one time (and by some still are sadly) considered to be subhuman by white people, women were (and again sadly still are by some) considered to be less intelligent and inferior to men. More and more animals are found to be self-aware and tool-using. As our knowledge grows, our attitudes change. this proposal is not new and is not unreasonable to discuss regardless of the side one chooses.
By a different tim at 9:57 AM ON 01/05/10
Soon our dolphin overlords shall show us who really is tthe true masters of this world!!!! Bwah ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!
By SciFiFan at 10:53 AM ON 01/05/10
That's fine. I think Scientists should be given dolphin status. I always knew Dolphins were smarter than scientists anyway.
By Photoprinter at 10:53 AM ON 01/05/10
"and learn from each other." Our Min-Pin learned to hold her food bowl down with her foot, to lick it clean, by watching our Chihuahua do it! Does that make her Human too? Sorry, ALL animals can learn from each other. Otherwise, they would all starve. Any dog can understand human words, and ALL animals have some type of language. How else could they communicate?
By stargazer_1682 at 12:07 PM ON 01/05/10
It's probably the fault of zoologist who phrased it in such an odd way, but I'd like to admonish SciFi Wire for not put things into perspective - after all, how many episodes of Star Trek dealt with the matter of if a life form were SENTIENT?
Not human status, sentience. If the specialist in question is making the argument that dolphins' ability to be self-aware and other qualities that put them in a comparable class to humans; then that qualification would be that they may be sentient.
By Hercules40 at 12:22 PM ON 01/05/10
Do Dolphins or Whales create Art?
What is their music if not art?
@Journeyman: Yes, granting Dolphins this status would be the first step to "Uplifting" them.
If you have not read David Brin's seminal "Uplift Saga" Sci-Fi series, don't try to debate this subject.
Also - A great primer from a scientist who is not a Dolphin Biologist is "The Cosmic Connection: An Extraterrestrial Perspective" by Carl Sagan. I still marvel at how much we knew about Dolphins in 1973 when this book was published.
I can go on and list a bunch of great Dolphin books too, but what's the point? Most of you think that these amazing species does not deserve our consideration. I suppose you feel the same towards any foreign who doesn't look like you.
I suppose when we finally get out there and meet intelligent life you will feel the same about them as well...
"Ehh... They can't be intelligent. They're just these giant 10 foot blue aliens with tails. Let's shoot them all."
I swear. Humanity is useless. The Universe should wipe us all away and start over.
By sssQRRfzzzzzz at 12:28 PM ON 01/05/10
Sqrk clik ur-rr-rr-rr-rr sqeeee? Qak nik buzz b-b-b-b-b fzzzz? Nk hm bz brak fzzzz!
By Rajaha at 1:05 PM ON 01/05/10
The Mind Set of Man Kind is Scary! Unless We as Man Kind can learn the true Meaning of the term "All Are Connected" We will lose this Earth by Destruction of Our Own Making.
We are so Blind that we don't realize that our Playland is already Gone and we Will Not be Given Another. So Granted! There are Two Evils in the world therfore, the Mind Set of Man Kind must die or Man Kind must Die!
It's very simple.
By Flux Cheese at 2:55 PM ON 01/05/10
If someone were to ask me what species I think had the best chance of evolving to a sentient stature I would say dolphins, so I have no doubt that they could one day evolve to be as intelligent as humans.. oh wait.. humans are intelligent?
Well perhaps in 30,000,000 years dolphins will be the dominant species on the Earth and perhaps do a better job of it than we have.
By muadib at 3:19 PM ON 01/05/10
jdmimic ,are you actually saying there is room inyour ..."mind" for these ANI ALS creating music for the sake of music? or art or undersnding the universe?Your kidding right !??And to answer you question.how do i know? BECAUSE IM'M NOT A BLITHERING IDIOT THAT GIVES HUMAN CHARACTERISTICS TO ANIMALS AND THINKS THEY ARE JUST LIKE US! Sometimes a whale is just that ..a whale.
By Tarc at 7:43 PM ON 01/05/10
There is certainly plenty of evidence that there are certain species (or clusters of species in the case of primates) that deserve special protection and recognition. Whales, dolphins, some advanced primates and the companion species should be recognized for the advanced intelligent and near humanoid development.
By Stephen Charchuk at 8:22 PM ON 01/05/10
When people hair the term animal they think of the verb meaning, in this context, when they are wrong. Its the noun meaning that is at issue. Like it or not humans are just as much an animal as dolphins are. "wild" is meaningless.
By HiddenVorlon at 11:32 PM ON 01/05/10
When the dolphins can elevate themselves to human status we'll talk. Until then, this "scientist" should "elevated" to the status of unemployed. Moron.
By zodiac4 at 8:22 AM ON 01/06/10
imbecile.
By halfdolphinhalfalligatorhalfman at 3:40 PM ON 01/06/10
clearly, dolphins are as close in status to humanity as a one year old child
By JESSICA at 2:08 PM ON 01/22/10
if you like the movie avator you are a hypocrite
chimps are supposed to be as smart as 3 years olds, dolphins are newly theorized to be smarter than that
they have a language thats more than emotional noises (fact) dolphins have been recorded talking about other dolphins (we know this cause they have certain noises for their names)
and the layout of their brains means they probably have reasoning and problem solving skills which has been seen through observation also
brain size does matter when looking at humans and dolphins
the bigger the brain/mass the more brain is available for cognitive tasks
they have good memories
dolphins passed the psycho test that separates animals and babies from people
they try mimicking "humanoid" by saying things like hello and do not respond like parrots. we have yet to see where that leads.
they get caught in nets cause they dont have hands and they use sonar to see. even with our vision we can get caught in nets.
human status means that the world sees them as intelligent and protects them instead of eating them or leaving them in nets. so they can live in their habitat freely
they dont give a shit about voting
yes, they are happy creatures that are inquisitive
and according to your views yes we are better but in reality
we are all animals
dolphins have presumably been extremely intelligent creatures for millions of years before us.
and they are even being used by the military
no human would say an animal should have human status unless they had reason to believe this. i.e the last 80 years of research
i believe we should protect them
and i cant wait to for new findings
social norm is ignorance
so,
what if you're wrong?
By Nikki at 9:36 AM ON 02/26/10
Just because a dolphin would have human rights does not mean it gets the right to vote. Be realistic! It would mean however, that as human beings, we would not be allowed by law to hurt them or make them perform in stupid shows. How can humans be so cruel? I ask that all you people who think it is dumb to imagine yourself being kept captive and made to perform. Never allowed to see your family or your home again. Have some empathy people! It's not about being hippie, or a tree hugger. It's about being human. Humans are supposed to be compationate. Show some compassion towards other creatures and the fellow man. Trying to act like a tough man and saying mean stuff about animals and people just shows how inferior you are to every creature on this planet.
By Sabrina at 11:41 AM ON 03/13/10
The idea of dolphins having an elevated status is not new. In ancient Greece, if somone killed a dolphin it was punishable by death! I think it's sad that people devalue dolphins and whales and ridicule others who do want to help save them and preserve them in the wild. There's nothing stupid about it...what's stupid is the senseless slaughter of these beautiful animals or exploitation of them for "entertainment" and/or profit.
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Sabrina:
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